Ronan Leonard

Tyson: 00:15 Welcome to the social chameleon show where it's my goal to help you learn, grow and transform into the person you want to become. Today I'm talking about Ronan Leonard, the mastermind guy. Most expert experts make the mistake of picking just one mode to deliver their expertise through accountants make money through accounting trainers make money from training, cooks, Cook. You get the picture. The secret to becoming a niche leader and having more revenues to diversify how you deliver what you do. Leonard teaches niche business owners and subject matter experts how to leverage their Ip intellectual property into additional revenue models and increased their industry profile all through the innovative concept of virtual masterminds. When I love seeing the benefits of mastermind groups have on both the instructors and participants and as helped one and has helped hundreds of business owners increase authority, revenue and expertise and 23 Ronan help rescue passengers and fellow staff from the cruise ship.

Tyson: 01:10 He worked on a sync, sank off the coast of South Africa for nine years. So he kinda did you work on cruise ships, sailing around the world? A casino manager, his first business, a niche events company grew from just to casino tables over 50 and from one event a year to 300 becoming the largest gaming events company in Australia. And creating a whole niche from that. Uh, we talk about more about his experience on the cruise ship. A what an amazing, wonderful guy. Has just an amazing amount of knowledge through all the masterminding and the different people in things he, he's encountered. And the thing I love about this story is, you know, well, we know we're not stuck in just as one career, one job and we're not defined by this one thing. Uh, he, he did, he did a bunch of things and it shows that you can, as you get older and you want in life, you can try different things.

Tyson: 01:59 You can pursue different avenues. You can try different careers and you're not the by this one thing. You're not just this one person. You can reinvent yourself. This is a great testament to that. He's got an amazing amount of experience. The stories, stories and things. He shares his absolute great. Uh, we did have a tiny bit of Internet connection problems. On a day of this recording, there was a storm here where I am at and he also was very gracious to join us very early in the morning, all there from uh, Australia. I don't know what had happened there, so I did my best to clean it up a bit. And the ending, I'll jump in and kind of finish off the episode. Uh, there's quite a bit that has to be cut out. So without further ado, please enjoy this amazing interview with Ronan. Ronan, thank you so much. Welcome to social community show. It's a pleasure to have you a great connecting with you on Linkedin and whatnot. I likewise, I said, now we are looking forward to this interview. We had a good pre interview chat, so let's see where this takes us. Yes. You know, and, and the reason I think we're on here is you asked probably

Tyson: 03:00 hands down the best question I ever, ever, ever had asked me and am I getting the best return on intellect?

Ronan: 03:00

Tyson: 03:09 Can. Can you, can you, can we walk through this a little? Can you explain to me what this is?

Ronan: 03:15 Yeah. Thank you so much for first of all for that compliment. It really was something that almost took me four years to come up with. I used to run an events business and I looked at, I'd done that for over a decade. It took it as far as it could go and then I sat back and said, okay, I don't see myself doing this the next decade. What else do I want to do? And I think a lot of people really struggle to, to, to pivot, to change from, to reinvent themselves, come up with something else. Anyway, I started in these, these masterminds and I started my own masterminds. And then I just drew me back to the original sort of question. I sat down and I wrote down all this stuff I did and my events without sort of bragging. W were amazing, but I was the bottom of the food chain and I had no, I had no authority industry, no leverage.

Ronan: 04:03 We were just the PA, the thing that people bought last in their events, they bought them, the venue, the caterers, and then, oh, we've got some money left for entertainment. And one of the questions I'd ask myself is what I want to do next was was looking around for I suppose a bit more purpose and, and I asked myself that question a long time ago. I might get in the best return on my intellect and the answer was no. So I had to then find a way to, to, to package that up and use that more. And I think that's sometimes the most people, it's our calling or a purpose or a passion, whatever it to call it, to look and say, am I getting the best return on intellect? And the answer is no. You start to look for more creative ways to, to, to share what you know, to leverage that rather than just trying to get more clients in at the same price price point. You've already been doing.

Tyson: 04:55 Very interesting. I like to kind of talk about that event's business a little bit. I was reading that you, you went from from one event to 300 from, from two tables to 660 tables on him. I imagine it's a gambling tables, poker tables or something like that. Yes.

Ronan: 05:11 Yeah.

Tyson: 05:12 What, what, what did you, what did you learn from now? What will all some just horrible failures. What was the, the lessons there? What were the mistakes? They're like, what, what happened there that you can kind of share and give some wisdom to?

Ronan: 05:22 Oh, there was a myriad festival. I sunk my life savings into that business without any business plan, any business experience. I just had this hunch that the market would one quality casino tables and recreate all the excitement. When I worked on cruise ships without people losing money and I almost, I almost went broke. I'd for a year, I've got the zero clients and then I met someone who told me about Seo and, and took me to his house and showed me how to get my product in front of the right people. And then it sort of grew quite quickly. Once I, once I finally figured that missing piece of you don't know, we don't know right in business until someone shows you this is, this could be great for you. And then it grew quite quickly. I took on staff, I expanded into states, but I think my, one of my biggest problems was that I wasn't particularly good at systems.

Ronan: 06:16 Uh, I'm not really a procedure by the book manual sort of person. So I learned the hard way and lucky enough, none of my events failed, but I'd forget something. And in my head I do. And this checklist, I'd be halfway towards an event and have to turn back and pick something out. Uh, so systems was a big thing. I also had a lot of stuff that went off behind my back and started their own events. Business is the exact same thing that I was doing while they were contracted for me. And so I, I learned to be more tighter on your intellectual property and people sign in either nondisclosure or noncompete in their working for you. So that was to the two key lessons. And my final lesson was, um, my Google rankings were dropping, so I bought some paid links and I got a Google penalty and I've got manned by Google and I thought the world had fallen in. But because I'd been in business so long, um, I still had lots of clients come to me because I built up that social equity and that, that brand and that recognition. And it just took me a little while to get out of Google purgatory. So some key lessons in there.

Tyson: 07:20 Yeah, that's, uh, you know, that, that last one's good enough. Um, I've worked a bit in the, in the marketing industry for a few years now and that, that's something that happens. These guys come along and usually they don't really know much and they're new to the industry and then they get people like you to pay for these listings and they really just ranked it, the tank, their sites, and they're not lucky like you and they don't have that extra, you know, that backup or whatever. Like, you know, a lot of people really live or die by their Google rankings and that's a really, really good lesson too. Not just you learn, but to everybody out there like you've got to spend that time building these relationships and cultural relationships. Cause this Google at anytime you can just be like, we don't like what you're doing and just get rid of you and your business will go 60 80% of people's revenue. It goes away overnight.

Ronan: 08:04 Yeah. The same thing happened with, with Facebook. Everyone had big part of their business on Facebook and then the algorithm change and all of a sudden they were getting 7% reach on thousands of people. They're like their page. So yeah, you have to be far more in control of of those relationships of the, they're coming in and it's a question of also siloing in the more you can get referral partners and and different ways that the money comes in and it's similar to re I talk about this on return on intellect as well. If you can package up your intellect into different silos, then you're not relying on just one type of service or one type of customer. So it is really about having that desk diversification both in what you, what you know and teach and also in how your clients come in.

Tyson: 08:50 That's a, that's the one thing I was when I was looking through your site that I really was interested in you, you go, you have this, this

Tyson: 08:56 uh, piece there. I says, uh, you know, cookie cutter courses, download ebooks, reading blogs and, and tied to those 30 day challenges and not having those 30 dash on without success. What is it that about those things all seem like things that should be working. Why aren't, why do you see those aren't working?

Ronan: 09:12 Two reasons. A huge one is that it's content and not context. So we've gone from this 30 years ago, information was, was power. Incredible power in on our smartphones. We've probably got us more information now than then. Kings and Queens and presidents had 40, 40, 50 years ago. We had this huge amount of information, but it's not helping us. It doesn't make us smarter. Business is failing faster than they were 30 years ago. So clearly it's not, it's not information, it's the context there. Apply that. And the second part is the accountability. As you get more and more information and we see myself included, you, you'd have to really fight against just really more information for the sake of gay people walking down the street on their smartphone, consuming more and more information and yet never applying it or it's not the right information or just not having the accountability to actually implement that.

Ronan: 10:09 You see this great idea and then there's gone. You look at the next one. So it's a combination of, I believe there's two things, some accountability to say this is what I'm working on. Uh, and also the context, is that right for you really? Have you tested that assumption? Can you take a step back and, and, and finding the right context for that content to say, yes, that's perfect for me. Like I said earlier, where that guy showed me that this is the way to get in front of your audience and it was 100% rise. Whereas sometimes you get all this information and it's not the right information for you

Tyson: 10:40 or it's old and outdated. I see that a lot to people. Uh, the, the, you know, buy this course, these things or whatever and this information that these guys have spent six months, they figured out they made a lot of money in there. Like, I'm going to sell this information now and it's outdated by the time they're out there selling it and you're trying to implement it in and it does those trends or hot things are long gone.

Ronan: 11:00 Oh, exactly. It's like a linkedin. Everyone's saying you, you come up with this three mail strategy on linkedin and it's the first one is offering value and the second one is transitioning or agitating the pain. And the third one is, hey, this is what I do. And everyone's done it for the last two years. Is anyone selling that information? You look at it and, and I know has been active on linkedin and you probably are as well. The second you get that first one, you just go, ah, this is just a sequence. Not Interested. So, but they're still selling that to people that don't know that that's been flogged to death. It doesn't work.

Tyson: 11:36 Yeah. Even the, Oh, can I get on a phone with you for 15 minutes to talk about what you do? And I'm like, you know, I think I actually know the guys that invented that sequence and you're not going to get me on to pretend like you care about what I'm doing so you can send me what you're up to. And it's just like, come on people skin with it a little here. Like do you got a bill and you know, I've talked to people, you know, at first when I started seeing this, I'm like, you know, this isn't working, is it? Oh No. It's not like, why are you keep doing it? Like do you think this is how you build a relationship with me? Do you think I want to talk to you this way? And they're like, eh. And then they get offended.

Tyson: 12:09 It gets so mad and I'm like, I, I'm, I want to help you. This is not how you build a relationship. You don't give a shit about me or what I'm up to like your, this is the worst. What'd you walk up to me on the street and say this to me? You would never would do this. Would you walk up to the opposite sex or whatever you're attracted to and you just ask them to marry you. You would never do this. We gotta we gotta stop this and, and that's the problem be like you're saying these, these things are out there. They're, they're untested or they're just split out there and people are just trying to like this doesn't work. And then they give up and that's so disheartening.

Ronan: 12:40 Yeah, there is, there's not a great information out. There is not a dis information and it's taking that sort of step back and saying, is this really right for me? Can I test some of my assumptions? Is there someone I could bounce this idea off before I just go into one, one to another? I hear all the time I'm on Linkedin. What's the one phrase? It's the, I'm a high end closer and I know the person, I know the person. I don't know him personally, but I know the best news created that everyone says, Hey, I'm a high end, I'm a high ticket closer and okay, you've been through this guy's program, haven't you? And He's told you to spam may want on Linkedin hasn't. Yeah, it hasn't even, they're like, yeah, when it doesn't work. So whatever you've dropped for that course and that program, uh, it worked for him for five years ago and now he's just making money off of you even though the process no longer works.

Tyson: 13:29 Yeah. I don't know about you, but I've never been around a high end closer that tells you that.

Ronan: 13:34 Yeah.

Tyson: 13:34 They just get it done.

Ronan: 13:36 Yes. Sometimes the clue's in the title as what you can do and sometimes the clue's in the title as in, uh, that's not what you can do.

Tyson: 13:47 Yes, absolutely. So what, what, what have you found that gets, that get past those obstacles there that we've kind of identified here? What have you found that's really just, uh, the thing that's, that's evergreen, that's just continuously working.

Ronan: 14:03 I, I'm obviously coming from a bias place, but, but I would say, I would say masterminds. There is no other way that I know of that you can't do one on one coaching. So that works. But, but a mastermind and the right mastermind gives you that multidimensional perspective. It's not just one person saying, this is my opinion. Go follow that. She's wearing coaches. It's four or five people saying, have you tried this? What about bad? And that mind Meld of all coming together and giving everyone's perspective. So if you've got six people in a room and they've all got 10 years, this is the experience that's, that's adding new context to content. They can say, Oh look, I tried that didn't work. Or what about that? You know, I hadn't thought of that. And, and often in these masterminds, you'll find that somebody is telling someone else an idea and a third person who refuse, he writing down going, that's great.

Ronan: 14:54 I didn't know that. There wasn't even my question. It wasn't even my problem. I found a solution that I didn't even know existed. Uh, so for me, and it also comes from accountability. You come back and you say, I tried this, it worked or it didn't work or I've done part of the way I'm stuck on this. So it's the accountability of being, um, those commitments you make to yourself. Cause we have this experience itself and we have this no itself and there's a gap between the two. So I know in sales says, yeah, I've got to lose weight and I'm going to go to the gym. And then the experience self sits on the couch and eat chips and, and binges on Netflix stuff before I've done it myself included. And there's that gap between the two and now they're both right. You know, you really do want to lose weight. Um, but there's, there's something that, that, that stops you in the gap in the, in between is the more you can narrow that gap with some kind of accountability and that's often a training partner or just somebody that you commit to and you're far more likely to do. It is often the difference between spinning your wheels, chasing each shiny sub in shiny objects syndrome or actually getting the work done that you've, because you commit to someone else.

Tyson: 16:05 Now, do you find that that misinformation and this old kind of knowledge gets weeded out in the, in these types of communities where there's people checking and balancing each other saying, this doesn't work anymore, or something along those lines?

Ronan: 16:19 Yes and no. It's not the perfect panacea there. I don't think that there is one yet. They probably won't be. I think AI might come along and just completely blow away almost everything we do, but I do believe that it is one of the the, when you come together in that, in that shared environment and you come with that growth mindset, you come with that collaboration mindset and you come to say, look our, we've all got problems. It's not this highlights reel of social media where everyone's winning. You get to truly understand that even people with a $5 million business wants to get to 10 or 20 and have their own problems versus new. That might be on 50 or a hundred k trying to hit that next level. So it really doesn't matter where you are in the process, you will find people a little bit. But I love you a bit, a little bit above you that can help you and a little bit below you that you can help those people in the middle and, and get that, get that help and support and advice that, that we all, myself included, so desperately need.

Tyson: 17:19 I, I'm assuming you have, you have people, these masterminds from, from all over the world, or is it mainly Australia where you're at

Ronan: 17:27 all over the world? As long as you speak a common language, you've got the pretty much the same universal problems. How do I grow? How do I get more productive? How do I get rid of return on intellect? How do I figure out this beer? There's always a new puzzle to figure out because business is evolving at a far greater pace than we can keep up with. Um, so like you said, you know, you look in your final blog post and go, oh, that's great, but it's, it's from a something that worked two years ago, no longer works. So how do you keep up with, with information that is, that is correct and succinct for you.

Tyson: 18:05 How and how are you guys testing these ideas and what do you, what is some technique well, for, for proving these things, in testing these things, in getting, um, getting through some of these obstacles,

Ronan: 18:20 it's, it's really a question of fear. The accountability of saying, okay, my issue is that I don't have enough sort of growth in this and I want to try a different market. And then the group will come back and say, well, what about this? Have you tried sort of his lawyers a good niche for you? Or is, is that, and then they, because there's, there's no hundred percent certainty in any business or any idea. There's a hyperbolic probability and you test some of those assumptions and then people report back and you follow them up and say, okay, well last week you said you're going to go away. And do this, did you do that? Yes. What were the results are this works. It didn't quite work. And you get to sort of test those, those ideas. So it is an evolving process because as I said, there's no a hundred percent certainty.

Ronan: 19:09 Anything you do, you've got a high probability from people who've already done it. I can give you that advice versus you know, when we first started in something, we have no idea we can even do it. I remember my very first events business when I did that very first event, I sat down in my back garden and went, wow, I did that because before that I'd never experienced it. Right. And we've all had those moments when you learn something, when you're at school, when you ride a bike, it doesn't really matter. Having those Aha moments again. Actually I can do that. I thought I could maybe, but I wasn't sure. And there is that huge difference between um, intellectually thinking, oh, I could probably do that. And, and the actual reality of when it comes to fruition, you go, oh, I did that. And they are two different things. And those, and when you do it, it gives you that confidence to do more and more and more of it. And that's actually, that's where your motivation always comes from. Motivation doesn't come from, um, Tony Robbins' firewalk in, doesn't come from listening to Gary v Ranting about, you know, you should be working 70 hours a week. It comes from you're doing something and going, oh, I liked that. I was good at that. I want to do more of it. And, and you will find your own motivation from that when you find something you're good at.

Tyson: 20:23 Yeah, absolutely. That, that positive reinforcement, that's how we start to build these habits and getting those snowballing affects. And uh, that just leads to more of that. On the other hand, I'd like to ask the people, you were saying, you come back and say, did you do this and do that? What does it, what happens? Is that the community or is it, you guys are pushing people to say, did you do this? And they say, no. Well, what, what does that process look like?

Ronan: 20:46 We, it depends the person. Some people need some tough love. Some people need that, that space too, to say, okay, well I didn't, but I've got a good excuse. Uh, it can be a tough one. You do find that that some people are uncoachable, uh, or, or, or unwilling to learn. And it doesn't matter how many times you might sort of give them the encouragement. You just have to accept that fact that there that some people just, just don't want to, to, to learn. No matter how much they might say, they just, they're just uncomfortable. Have you, have you ever had that experience where, yeah,

Tyson: 21:21 we can have a whole nother show about that. Oh my goodness. And you know, the funny, the thing that, it's funny to me as I look back and I, you know, just a very recent thing, a guy I was trying to work with him, he had that same, I know, I know. I know. If you knew we wouldn't be having this conversation, we wouldn't be doing these things in six months later. I get a message from him saying everything we've talked about how to just all gone wrong. Like I, it's like I saw the future. It's really, it's really disheartening. Like what, what is your, what is your strategy or technique? Do you, do you boot them out? Does this type of person bring down the rest of your group? Like what, what are you doing to kind of help her solve or get rid of them or what, what is, what have you found that works?

Ronan: 22:04 Uh, there's no one size fits all it for, for most people though. You can sometimes just just pointed antilope we've, we've had this same issue. Keeps recurring. Uh, what, why do you think that is? Because often people need to be, um, not given the solution but find it on their own. But you leave those clues and you leave, you let, let them come up with there. The answer themselves. You just give him enough, um, enough pointers in the right direction to do that. And that's something that I'm still trying to improve myself to be honest. I don't have that mastered. Uh, so it, it is a question of, of, of, of seeing the patterns and then seeing if they can see the patterns themselves. And when they do, they're far more likely to do that. It goes back to that old story is that, um, you, you'll believe something you might read on the Internet, you'll believe, uh, a little bit more likely to believe something that your friends and family telling you.

Ronan: 23:02 But you will always believe the stories you tell yourself. Yes, they are 100% true until you finally break down that pattern and go, okay, that was a false belief. I can't do this or I'm better than that. Or You just finally come to that realization where you can break that down. So, so, so, you know, a stranger or even a paid coach can tell you something and tell you something and you're bad at against it going, no, that's not true. Or I don't believe that or your wrong. And it's only that final when you break down your own story, their own truth, that you're able to go past that. And that's the hardest thing to do.

Tyson: 23:42 Lately. I've been trying this technique. Let me, I want to pose this thought to you. I, I've been trying to encourage like that kind of fall on your face, kind of fail little and maybe, maybe a humble you or something and maybe show you something. Sometimes it's works and sometimes it just quite doesn't. What do you have any, have you tried that? Do you have any experience with that?

Ronan: 24:04 Can you give us one of your examples? What, what do you mean by that?

Tyson: 24:09 We'll, we'll, we'll, we'll have a conversation that's to say you're, you're, you're not making your sales calls or whatever, and we keep going through it, keep going through it. And it's like, and then it's like, you know what? Keep doing it. You're doing it. That sounds fine because you're not just not listening to me. You're not, you're not believing that the thing. And then all of a sudden it's like, oh, we're on a prospect's, I'm like, she's making no sales calls. You know, we talked about this. And then sometimes they're like, got it. Now I see what you're saying. And then sometimes you're like more excuses, you know, uh, it, oh, it's because this isn't working. He told me to do this, this thing, and I get these forms, it's follow up these people and I know that's not working and it's just more, more excuses. I still found kind of a bout the same kind of resistance. A little like more people are getting it. They're like, I see you. Thanks for letting me fall on my face. I appreciate that. And some people still, there's still excuses there,

Ronan: 25:03 right? Have you, have you tried the five why's?

Tyson: 25:06 No, I'm not, I'm not familiar with this.

Ronan: 25:08 Okay. You can share this with the audience. So I said the five why's is that you keep asking the why question. So, okay, so let me give you an example. So someone comes to the mastermind and they say, ah, I didn't get that stuff done last week. And you say, why didn't you get done so well, I didn't have time. Well, why didn't you have time? Because, uh, all these other things happened and my is just got overtaken. So why did that happen? So while I don't track how long I spend on my client work or how long it takes me to do a blog post and I, you know, I write three a week. So, and then you ask one more question, then you finally get to the why. So the why is that they don't track their time so they don't know where their day goes.

Ronan: 25:52 And that's the why. So the, the surface level problem, you go down through the five whys until you finally, they come up with it. You keep asking that why, why did that happen? And then you finally come up with a real reason why. And it might be for those sales calls they go, I just, I just have such a fear of calling people. I feel like I can't do it. But they won't tell you that at the first why they'll, they'll give you all the other bullshit excuses. Uh, so the five, the five whys is a great way of drilling down into just one thing until most of the time people finally, we finally find the real cause of that problem.

Tyson: 26:28 I liked it. I, I've heard of something similar. I just never heard of the five whys. But I know what you're saying. Yeah, that's a, I really liked that. And he said, and you know, it's really good. He's doing it to yourself. That's powerful. And you're just like, why am I, why am I not doing these things? What I know what I should be doing. I know the important tasks and the goals. That's really hard when you see to yourself.

Ronan: 26:50 That's, that's fun stuff. Yeah. The self reflection and if you've read the go is the enemies breaking her, they're great. Great ways of thinking about, um, you know, it's all about you. We, we, our results are down to just two things. The idea is that we have and the action we take and it's as simple as that, right? And if you look at it, you look at where you're at and say, okay, well I'm not where I want to be. Some of it, one of those two things, preferably both have to change in what order? I don't know. Normally the better the idea, the less execution you need cause it just works. So it's down to those two things. So taking that step back is all about ego and saying, okay, look, I admit that I haven't got it all figured out. I'm happy to admit that that's the first step.

Ronan: 27:33 The second one is, okay, who does know what? I don't know. Who can I connect to? And um, even accountability partner, you don't need to join formal coaching. You don't necessarily need to to join a course or a mastermind. You can just find somebody, you know, buddy that has different skill sets to you and say, let's, let's work together. We check in once a week and work on some of those issues. So the first, the first thing is, is that letting go of the ego and saying, okay, I haven't got it all figured out, but somebody else has, let's go and find them.

Tyson: 28:06 That's great. With the masterminds, I know this is, this is the recurring theme and I do like that idea. I think there's, there's power in, in more people than one in the room and more people thinking on about probably more brains and stuff. What, when you first started to now, what are some of the assumptions you had or, or the things you thought were true that really just haven't come to be true and maybe some new things you discover it to really make those groups very cool hearing. I'm really draw out the best in people.

Ronan: 28:33 Uh, what I really learnt was that people don't want to Canterbury

Ronan: 28:40 backseat one to the end novice, but not themselves. Oh, he's got, you know, the president of this or the, this politician lied or stolen or cheated, whatever it is. So we all wanted other people, not ourselves. So I, so my approach is sort of changed slightly and it's more about you sell them what they want and he'd given what they need, which is, which is why I've sort of transitioned from accountability is a word to return on intellect because, uh, that's what people want, how they get it. It could be a couple of different ways, but it's just that transition to say, okay, you give people what they, what they want and then, and then you actually deliver what they actually need. So does that make sense?

Tyson: 29:22 No, it does. It does. It does and you're not that question. Not only is it setting yourself apart from all of this other things out there, it gets people's attention and I got to say, I'm not, I'm not blowing any smoke here. You really got me thinking what? What is the return of my aunt's like? What? I don't know, like first of all, I don't know how to calculate that, but secondly is the worst case scenario just gets me, that got me to think, am I getting the return out? Is I put in and it really just gets that the thought process going.

Ronan: 29:55 Yeah, it's just a, it's just a great starting point and it could be all right, well I really know my stuff. I want to be classed as the authority. I probably should write a book or I should try and speak or I should do something that that raises my profile and takes me to that next level. Instead of what most people focus on is, okay, how can I just fill my day more with the same, the same revenue paying clients? I just need more and more clients. But once you, but that isn't necessarily your, your best return on intellect. And when you look at all your life experiences, you talked about, you know, share a couple of mistakes and all of those things, that's a shortcut for, for somebody else. Yes. If, if they're willing to, they're starting out early in their journey and they're willing to invest into a mastermind with somebody that say, for example, there, there were a copywriter and they've done it for 10, 15 years and people are just starting out and they've gone from Fiverr and upwork and they say, okay, I want to find my way.

Ronan: 30:56 Okay, we can do it the slow way and you can spend the next 12, 18 months reading all these blogs and everything. Or let me just show you my process now for that person to do that. That does require the growth mindset because what most people would think is that I'll just be, I'll just, I'm just going to train these copywriters who are now going to take over my, take my slice of the pie. Um, two things without, first of all, they're coming in anyway. So you might as well make some revenue out of them and also position yourself above them and you'll make money from them and you'll teach in the right way. And also you'll create that whole new revenue stream. So you'll still have your copywriting clients, but you'll have this higher, let's call it a higher ticket offer, which again, leverage is your, your intellect. So it's just, it's just one way of thinking about it and saying, okay, well I don't just have to do copywriting. Don't just have to fill these clients at this x price per hour. What else can I do with all this stuff? I know.

Tyson: 31:57 Yeah, I love that perspective. I hear that a lot. Um, you know, on my side here too, people are like, well, I can't give everything away. I can't do all this stuff because there's nothing left for me. And the one thing I try to impress upon people is, first of all, there, there's so much out there you, you couldn't possibly service all the needs that there are that are out there. You know? And secondly, you know,

Tyson: 32:17 by sharing this stuff, you're, you're, you're learning, you're growing and you're, you're kind of, you're spreading, you know, that goodwill and that prosperity. And I think that that gives more. I, you know, I've had, I've had, I have a client where she had that mindset at first, I got to charge for anything. I've got to do this stuff. And I, and I, and I kind of broke through that with her. And then she started giving more and being more, kind of open with, with her knowledge, talents. And she makes more than she ever did before. And she's like, I can't believe just such a simple switch, open up so much potential and so much opportunity. It's, it's really, I love that you're, you, you've also got that and you group teaching that too.

Ronan: 32:53 Well, it comes down to two things come into the growth mindset. So you know, you actually put it on the, on the right path. And secondly, when you look at, um, what does authority mean? So authority means that you get, um, you get to charge more, right? You're, you're respected in your niche or your niche, you get to work with better clients, etc. Etc. How do you create authority? It's all about teaching. So you're doing it right now by running a podcast, you're, you become that next level of authority because you're teaching, you're sharing knowledge, ideas, wisdom, and that's all authority is. It's just being the person that is either on TV at a segment talking about their expertise or their guests, their guest blogging, or they were, they run their own podcast or they want to podcast. So the more you teach people and share what you know, the more your ideal client ends up being.

Ronan: 33:48 I said, this is a, I like this phrase. You say your worst client is somebody that will try and take all your information, um, hacky themselves, do that. They're never going to pay for your stuff anyway. You give, giving away for free. Your ideal client is so busy doing their main thing is that they will pay you what you are worth. So to solve that particular thing because they don't want to become that expert in and they don't wanna spend that time in it. They make more money in what they do. So when you chasing your ideal clients, uh, it's giving that stuff away because then they see the value, they understand what you can actually provide and they have the money and they're willing to pay you for it. So that's your ideal client.

Tyson: 34:30 Absolutely. And I like to tell people, steal all my stuff. I don't care. I came up with it. I'll make up new stuff. I'll, you're just regurgitating what I said or what I learned versus I've gathered this and I pieced together myself. I'll just keep coming with more new things. You won't. So eventually I'm going to outpace you. Either way.

Ronan: 34:49 That's a Mcdonald's philosophy. They, I think they said to Ray Kroc, I'm only worried about all these people cannot see it. I can, we can invent faster than they can copy. Exactly. Exactly.

Tyson: 35:00 I hope it doesn't sound cocky, but there's something to that cause you, you can just keep pushing forward and not be caught up in that noise and not be caught up in what everybody else around you is doing. All this person is stealing myself. Now I've got to spend energy and time and taking that back and getting that back end versus ah, that's okay. I'm going to keep creating, I'm going to keep giving. And I'm just gonna keep pushing forward and really pushing the community forward, pushing the service to the industry, whatever it is you're doing forward and upward and, and, and getting that community in that prosperity throughout their whole thing.

Ronan: 35:29 Yeah. We'll fighter planes have no rear mirror, so it's like that in there. So you can look behind him and assess what people are doing and Oh, you can, you can move forward and say, okay, I'm setting my own pace.

Tyson: 35:42 Absolutely. You know, only thing I knew you're on your side. I really, I really love and I want to hear if you could share a bit about it, is you had these four distinct phases, uh, purpose and belief, your wine mindset for growth and collaboration, the fundamentals, the five key mindsets for finding money, marketing, the seven mindsets for business application, and then transformation, the mindsets for creating abundance in business. Could you briefly go through all of those and, and, and give maybe one or two really key things that people can take away right now and, and just kind of, uh, each of those four phases just bring themselves forward.

Ronan: 36:18 When he touched on it earlier when you said that people say, yeah, I know that he said one of your clients here, I know that, but they don't. So we all talk about mindset and everyone says, yeah, I know that. But I bet they seldom if ever sat down and, and tested a couple, their limiting beliefs. So a big chunk of, of what I do is, is take people through a whole set of limiting beliefs. And some of it's around their pricing, some of it's around, they're not good enough. And there's a whole section specifically on that to just to test those, that, those assumptions and have those breakthrough moment. Because without it, it doesn't matter how much information you give people or even how much coaching you give them, the stories they tell themselves. So it is about breaking down a couple of those, those key stories they tell themselves.

Ronan: 37:08 Uh, so let me give you a really good example, uh, last year, which of these clients who was an artist predominantly, um, she did some big, um, outside projects, commercial projects where she painted inside of a big, big block of units. And she had this limiting belief that she signed this deal with this company that produced t shirts and other sort of things. And she felt it really cheapened to her brand. And as we sat down on our first discovery session, I just started asking, I said, so what have you done? And all these amazing stuff came out and she collaborated with Toolex. She had a painting by Eric Banner who was the Hulk as famous Australian actor. He's done quite a few Hollywood movies. And then she'd won this award overseas. And this list just kept coming out and out, only because I spent an hour. I just kept on asking Aaron and drawing that out and at the end of it, and then she went through some of the limiting beliefs and then she came out at the end.

Ronan: 38:12 And when you know that that's the mistake I made, it doesn't define me. He said it was all in my head that I thought everyone else thought me for less than me as an artist. And I have this limiting belief that I couldn't pitch for the staff because people would think about that and it was totally not true. So just led her through that whole process of redefining what she's bumping up against and and taking that to the, to the next level and the next level. Because ultimately she wants to work. She wants to be known as someone that does these huge ads I projects. And, and that's now given her the confidence to start pitching for them again because you've done a couple and she'd stopped because of this limiting belief. So that's just one example of, of how the stories we tell ourselves are the most of the time of the what gets in the way.

Tyson: 39:02 Is there a famous scientist or something like that said that the easiest person to fool is yourself? And point, is it true? The things we can convince ourselves of? It's really mind blowing.

Ronan: 39:12 Yeah, it is our biggest roadblock. So every time people say, I know that a good question is to, is to go back with them and say, well, can you give me an example? How do you know that? And the second you do that, they sort of go, oh, actually no rush. You don't. Uh, so there's, there's cliches all the time that we hear and see, and they're cliches for a reason. They're, they are based in truth. And you hear them because you've heard them so often you, you dismiss them because you think you know it. Right. A little bit. Like meditation, you know, I'd never met a day before I started just for hippies. And then about four years ago started, I've meditated every single day since. Uh, but I would have said, oh yeah, I know, I know meditation, but I hadn't because I hadn't experienced it.

Tyson: 39:57 Yes. By I had the, I had the same kind of processes you are. I kept hearing about this. I'm like, listen, that's not for me. That's where, you know, these yoga, it could be, you know, I'm not a Vegan and I, you know, that's, that's not me. And then I kept hearing it. Let me try it. It's an old man. That was hard. I was like, yeah, this definitely isn't for me. But the more I did it, the more techniques and styles I tried. Boy Has the, I think maybe I want to say I want to see at least a year solid every, almost every single day, probably two years, just about every day the change in, in the way I'm able to, to focus and catch myself and catch these thoughts and the things I'm thinking of. It's, it's amazing. I'll catch myself. I'm like, oh, look at that. What am I doing here? But that ability, you know, it, it doesn't have to be this spiritual thing if you don't want it to be, doesn't have to be this, this, this thing if you don't want it to be. But the practice of that, it is amazing how quick you, he was coming back. The focus, if you guys are on that ball like we were, I really recommend giving it a shot and there's lots of different things out there and tools and apps. It is a game changer.

Ronan: 41:03 Yeah, I'd agree you to go ahead and it's lovely to hear your, your passion coming through and, and when you start connecting more people like that, that have that growth mindset that are willing to try things I went into to even sort of fail yourself included. You talked about your clients failing a little bit then, then yeah, we, we all fail and we learn from it. As long as you don't make a fatal mistake and as long as you testing assumptions along the way then then yet it's all about constant failing and constant improvement.

Tyson: 41:30 I love, I love hearing failures and, and them, so like we said earlier that, you know, everything's a highlight reel nowadays and, and we don't see what it takes the 10, 15, 20 years long nights to the missing this and that and doing all these things in the sacrificing, you know, whether it's time and money, you know, we went off see all that and we're wondering why we're not, why, why am I not getting the results? I'm doing the same thing this guy is doing allegedly or whatever. It's been three weeks now. I don't understand why don't have a million followers. Just doesn't make any sense. You know? And I like sharing this. I like hearing these, these spellings and that's why I asked you earlier, you had this whole big thing. It seemed like a good idea. And next thing you know, you're like, nevermind, but what did you learn there?

Tyson: 42:11 What, what happened when we were wrong? You know, what, what, how did you come out the other side? I really liked hearing that. I love sharing them. I like to put together videos and stuff for things I failed at in the journey along the way. I think it's, it's really fun and it opens people's eyes to say, listen, I, I can fail too. And I know you've all done it. I know we've all done it, but I know if I learn and I get back up and I share an eye, I whatnot, I can get through it and I can show other people there's a path through. There's a way through which is going to take you some time.

Ronan: 42:39 Yeah. It makes you far more relatable as well.

Tyson: 42:41 That's true. I never thought about it that way as well. Speaking of disaster and failure, when I was going through your stuff, I, I came across this, this thing about this shipwreck you are in that I've never talked to anybody any near this. Could you, could you walk us through, you know, as much as you want about that, what was happening in your mindset, what was going on? Um, how, how that was like and then, and then the lessons or whatever it is you've, you've got out of that.

Ronan: 43:13 Sure. Well, I'm not a particularly demonstrative person. I'm from the UK, which means we are not as animated as and as Americans. Uh, that's that sort of part of my, my nature. But when this shit started sinking, so rewind a couple of days before I'd had this argument with the captain and the staff canteen and over somebody really, really petty that hadn't done, but I wasn't backing down. And the staff, Kathy was like, wait, he's the captain. You've got to respect him. That had a really rough seas off the coast of South Africa. Could not call the wild coast for nothing. The two oceans maids that we're talking a hundred mile an hour winds, um, 60, 70 foot swells, huge, huge ocean. Um, really, really rough. And we started sinking, but the officers and stuff didn't tell us. They kept it a secret. So they didn't do any of the safety procedures. And then, um, so we only sort of found out sort of through the grape vine and, and I really didn't know the ship was sinking until four or five hours later when I went down to the dining room and the water was almost up to the porthole there, which was normally two decks below that.

Ronan: 44:21 So like, all right, we, we, we really are sinking, but I was one of the lowest paid people on this, on the ship. I worked in the gift shop and as we started to load women and children to one life lifeboats, most of the senior officers and crew left on the other and not a single passenger. They just went. So there was people like myself, there was the, the cruise director, the entertainers and they were, they were, they were coordinating the rescue. They were on the bridge during the mayday signal. Ah, so lucky enough nobody died only because we sunk really slowly because we'd run out of lifeboats and there was still about 170 of us left on and we had to wait until first light when the African helicopters navy can, cause we're only just off shore but no one could get near us cause this huge store.

Ronan: 45:02 And there was all these, there were these boats around us but it couldn't get anywhere close to us just because it was just so rough. So I remember all the funny things that happened at the time. I first stem reason and I don't know why I was really, really calm and it goes back to partly my nature, but also, you know, I jumped in, I was helping people. I was, it was way above my pay grade. It didn't know what I just, it was just one of those things had happened to me. I was very young, I didn't panic and I've got a lot of good, positive, good memories from there. Hey, I must've, I worked for another nine years on ships so we didn't put me off. And even a really funny thing. So I met my wife on cruise ships and she joined the last ship. We've got engagement join the last ship, busy for me and she four weeks before me and she watched the safety video about what not to do. And she called me, she called me from San Diego and I was back home in the UK and she said, um, I just watch the safety video and there's a guy looks just like you on on the sinking ship. And I said, yeah, it was me. She said, I've known you for 12, 18 months and you've never told me this. I said, oh, like I forgot.

Ronan: 46:10 Oh, that seems like something that you just wouldn't forget or what I want to share something. I don't know. I forgot to tell her by the way. Yes. But what, you know, I'll link to video to you guys. Uh, what a, what an incredible story. And, and it was really disheartening that the captain and crew just just laughed. And then at the end of the video I watched, she's like, Hey, I said ship was sinking and you didn't get off. That's not my problem. I'm like, whew, boy it did. It did teach me to be a little bit more circumspect about automatically giving your respect to authority still has to be earned. So you can put our four stripes on the captain, or you can say I'm the CEO, whatever it is. But at some point, um, you, you should be testing the assumptions that, okay, is this person really as smart or powerful or as, or knowing as, as they, they lead to be and to do I do I automatically defer or do I take a step back and say, okay, well that doesn't sound right. I don't care whether you're the CEO. So I was just testing some of those. There's assumptions. Absolutely. And you know, I don't know if familiar with, with

Tyson: 47:30 Jocko Willink or anything, but he kinda talks about something like that. You know, you know, these people aren't going to, are going to trust you. They're not gonna, they're not gonna want to follow you. You, you can't force people to, to, to be led and for and, and really, uh, you know, whip these people down the road and yeah, if you're that kind of a leader that you're just not going to get far, you're not really gonna do much.

Ronan: 47:52 Yeah. It talks about extreme ownership as well, which for most people is these accountability plus plus 10

Tyson: 48:01 absolutely. I love that philosophy, that, that thing. And I was doing similar things before I ever heard of Jocko and, and I used to get the strangest looks at, you know, especially when I was in charge of this company, you know, the guys all down the bottom, they know did they weren't doing what they're supposed to do and you know, the owner of all what's going on in tasting, I'm like, I'm fucking up. I pirate. Apparently it didn't convey the message properly and my boss was like, the, the owner was like, there's no way you're fucking up. You're not out there doing it. I said, I am, because they didn't get the message correctly. So everything that happened, all they from me, all the to them it's my fault because they didn't know what they are doing. So I've got to fix how from the top here in this office out to the field, how this works. It's absolutely my fault. And I just, I still remember his face and his stay looking at me like, it's not your fault. You're crazy. It's not taking the blame.

Ronan: 48:48 Oh, that's nice. That's nice that you, you, you have that sort of built into, yeah.

Tyson: 48:52 You know, I, I, my dad was in, uh, uh, in, in army stuff, I think, I think it must come from come from, from there because that's just how it always, you know, when you're in charge. And, you know, I had younger brothers and sisters and you know, uh, if they're, if they're, you know, messing up and stuff, you know, it's on me. I'm the oldest here. I'm supposed to be sitting in his lap and I'm supposed to be guiding, you're leading them. And if I'm not doing that, then you know, and they're, they're not doing the right things and I'm around. It's absolutely on me as well. I get all my shit how I grew up, I guess.

Ronan: 49:17 Yeah. I think the more you, the more you can step into that, the more you can spot your weaknesses. We've talked about this. This is become a recurring theme throughout this podcast where you talk about something but you don't do it. And then that gap and the more you can close that gap, the more you can have what you want out of life by, by closing that gap between what you say and what you do. That's a huge way to, to, I don't want to define success because for most people it's not the, the Ferrari and the mansion and they sold that dream. But you talked to small business owners and majority of them, they, they obviously want to grow. They obviously want to progress, but they, they don't really have those aspirations. That's not their vision. Their vision is to help more people. Their vision is to, um, uh, zed probably create some better return on intellects, but not, not, I don't need the $10 million mansion and the Ferrari's and all that, all that Bs. Um, but one of the best ways to get there, what you want is to recognize that gap, which is the self awareness and letting go of the ego and finding ways to close that gap between what you say you're going to do and what you do. And then the more you can do that, the more you can live the life that you

Tyson: 50:28 then, you know, that was one of the biggest lessons I learned, I learned a few years ago and I'm pretty proud to been progressing through that. It's, you know, I, you know, I have, I think, I know, and then then I think, well, why am I not doing it? And it really just drilling down into that like, I know this, why am I not doing it? What's the roadblock? What's the thing? And I've really been trying to spend a lot of time to pass and I, and I also been trying to say there's other people like, you know, why aren't we doing it? What's, what's going? How can we, how can we fix this? What, what is going on that's stopping us from doing what we know we should be doing?

Ronan: 51:01 Yeah. It's, it's a good starting point. Often it's just looking at all the things you do during the day. And, uh, one of the things I try and do is your most important task first, right? But there's those two or three at the top and then the rest of the day can Peter out. And then you end up doing stuff that really isn't creating the true value. But at least if you've, um, you know, the miracle morning and eat the Green Frog as if you've done those first couple of hard things first, then the rest of your day feels far more productive and effortless even though it might not be.

Tyson: 51:33 No, absolutely. I, I've, uh, I've been trying to do that same thing for a little bit now and it's really, it really helps focus at least like you said, that first half of the day, knocking out those kinds of things that have been lingering on your to do list and you wind up saying, well, you know, this is going to take two hours. I'm going to do these a little things first that are quick. And next thing you know, it's well past lunch, your days over. That one thing I still haven't done yet.

Ronan: 51:57 Yeah. I mean we're all looking for productivity hacks. Tell me shares about it. Um, sometimes it's, it's dropping off the things we, if social media doesn't work for you and it's not your avatar. So I look at things like virtual CFOs. I was looking at that space last year, um, and they've all created their Twitter account and then they never ever use it because they were told they should be on Twitter. They target, most Italian customers aren't on Twitter, so forget about Twitter. Probably forget about Facebook. So there are two type of people on Facebook and there are people that spend scrolling, scrolling, scrolling, and there were people that advertise on there. So if you want more clients, you shouldn't be on Facebook other than to advertise to people you're either been sold or sold to. So figure that out. Hey, I spent an hour and a half on Facebook wasn't this great. Or Hey, I spend an hour and a half creating a new ad on Facebook and targeting the right people and I got three leads out of that happy days. So finding the, finding the most, the most impact rather than just productivity. Uh, it can go both ways. Yeah.

Tyson: 53:06 What does a typical day look like for you? That the first 60 to 90 minutes in the morning, whatever it is, what does that look like for you? Do you have about habits, routines? What does it look like?

Ronan: 53:17 Oh, huge on half the last four years. So my, so the first thing I'd do is meditate. Then I exercise, then I write 25 minutes, now learn for 25 minutes, read or do something I was supposed to do with specifically about learning. And then I write for 25 minutes and that takes me up until a, so I started at six. That takes me up to about eight, eight 30. Uh, today I'm slightly out. I've got to do my writing after this call and then the rest of the day can, um, I'll, I'll look, I'll, I'll chunk my most important task for the first, first part of the morning and then, you know, more emails come in or something happens that I've got to react to. I've got the time in the space, but I've also not beating myself up because I've done what I consider my most important things and I've, I've sort of owned that sort of early morning and I've just layered that it's taken me so three or four years to get to that space.

Ronan: 54:11 Uh, but yeah, I find that, that, that routine works really well for me. It keeps me balanced. I've, I've exercises and all the things that you want to do in the afternoon and then the day goes away and you say, Oh, I didn't have time. Um, and, and that's one of the biggest lies we tell ourselves who don't have time. If we stop and say, actually I don't believe that's important enough for me to stop doing something else and do that. Uh, so that's, that's the sort of phrase that I, I try and check myself with what I say. I don't have time sit back and say, do I really want to do that? And if I do, I'll find the time and I'll drop something else that isn't as productive or as interesting or as, or as beneficial to me.

Tyson: 54:51 Yeah, absolutely. That's, I hear that excuse so often of, of those habits, what have you either added or dropped recently that's really made a huge improvement in, in that routine or in your life?

Ronan: 55:04 The education of the 25 minutes is, has been the biggest thing because it creates that spark of creativity. Because, um, I like to use the, the, and, or the buck thing. So you read something and the only way to go deeper is to add an [inaudible] or a bat. So even if you hear something from Simon Sinek or Gary v or Tony Robbins, you can find something within there and you can potentially go just that little bit deeper. So if you, if you go and or a bat about means that you're at least challenging it. So yeah, I believe in Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. So it might be the money's in the list. You got the money's in the list. But in March,

Tyson: 55:45 much as we could get out of this interview, unfortunately, I do, uh, reach out to Ronan. He provided me with the resources he was talking about here. So first I had asked him, what are the book of books that helped you the most in your journey? The three books he shared was Cyprus, psycho cybernetics. Uh, this is been a feud recommendation on this and it's a show for this book. Definitely something to check out. I have this on my list to, uh, to read, uh, road, less the road, less stupid. Uh, all very interesting book. Uh, I will link to all these books in the show notes if you guys interested in reading these books and learning more about them. And the last book you recommended was drive by Dan Pink. I will link to all of those things and the insurance as well. Uh, he does have an amazing seven steps, accountability free mini course.

Tyson: 56:33 I'd really encourage you if folks to check out, I will have the link to show us as well for that as well. If you guys are interested in checking it out. It's a really good, beautifully laid out. A free little mini course that they offer is a great resource for you guys to help you guys get introduced to him and all his concepts and everything. If you're interested in learning more about him and his company, the things he's doing, if you're looking for that thing to step up, you're looking for something else. These things you've been trying, like we talked about, aren't working the books and the things you're doing aren't working. I would say give, give masterminds a shot. I've been in many of masterminds. I think they're great. Uh, what he's doing, it's amazing. Small knit groups of people that they've got a, they try to, you know, diversify the Group of seven that I will link to all of that in the show notes.

Tyson: 57:18 You can go to the website, you can check them out on Facebook. His linkedin is Twitter medium and stuff where he writes, I will link, like I said to the shipwreck video, a very enlightening experience for I think a lot of people. Uh, and you know, it's just goes to show even though like, you know, he was saying just because you're in charge, just because you're a captain doesn't make you a leader and being able to identify that and you know, taking the steps, maybe you you need to step up or you need a bit of recognize those things. Look for, look for the next episode. Coming up. That dichotomy of leadership, will we get into some more of those different types of things. We talk about being a follower, being a leader and you know, applying some of these concepts if, if you are in the position like he was when the captain, the ship, you know, bales in these voters behind you can, can start to cultivate these skills and, and things so you can step up and take charge.

Tyson: 58:10 And how bout like how he did in his, his story there and also this week's challenge, Ronan issue, the challenge of the five whys. We, he was a very gracious to give us a copy of that. I'll link the PDF will be in the show notes for this episode. So we had ever, so social media that show you guys can get the pdf work through these five whys, understanding them, getting rid of the bullshit and excuses in your life and getting down to the root cause of your problem or your objective or whatever it is you're struggling with. And you know, for the giveaway, you guys can head over to the social media show slash pick me, get into April's giveaway. It's going to be, um, something, I'm not quite sure yet. If you're listening to us in March, uh, you can still get into the healthy eating giveaway from doctor fitness USA.

Tyson: 59:03 If you haven't heard that episode, go back and listen to the absolute Battista and Steven, the doctor finished USA himself. They have given a way of great product, $197 value. I really recommend getting an, if you're looking to step up your fitness and your goals and everything like that, and you know, like always, if this is something that you think can help some other people share it, the best way to support the show is to share with your friends and family. Leave a like and leave a review on your favorite podcast app in between shows. You can follow us all week long at the social community show on Instagram, Facebook, and Twitter as well as you can subscribe to the video version on youtube or your favorite podcast app like iTunes, apple, Google podcast in places like that, stitcher, Spotify, and all these great places for past episodes and link to everything we talk about on show the show. You can head over to social chameleon. Dot Show for links and everything there. Until next time, keep learning, growing and transforming into the person you want to become.