Matt Bullock:

Matt founded eWAY (a company that processes secure credit card payments for merchants) in 1998 and formally launched the company in 2000. With the links to Australian banks completed in 2004, he set his sights on New Zealand and by 2009 had partnered with all the major New Zealand banks, expanding payment services in the region. This was followed in 2011, by eWAY’s expansion into the United Kingdom. In 2014, eWAY then expanded into Singapore, Hong Kong, and Malaysia. By late 2015, eWAY became the first Australian payment gateway to offer a mobile integration with Apple Pay. Before its sale in April 2016, eWAY had over 25,000 customers and processed 5.8 billion online purchases in 2015, about a quarter of all internet transactions in Australia. After the sale of eWay, Founder Matt Bullock instantly established Spinify, a new venture focused on workplace engagement and staff motivation. In the early days of Spinify Matt sought out fellow CEO’s to discuss the prospect of re-inventing leaderboards by applying gamification principles and motivational psychology frameworks. The aim was to enhance the staff experience and lead them to work harder to achieve the business results and their individual KPI’s (Key Performance Indicator). Spinify Leaderboards reflect Matt’s learnings and experience in running global Sales and Service teams and the continuous requirement to engage and motivate them to do more of the metrics that matter. With Spinify you can create leaderboards to celebrate and motivate your team in real time via amazing gamification techniques. Matt knew that engaged staff who were motivated would provide a small uplift in sales performance individually and that would build across the team having a dramatic impact on revenue.

Founder & CEO of Spinify
Spinify Leaderboards reflect Matt’s learnings and experience in running global Sales and Service teams and the continuous requirement to engage and motivate them to do more of the metrics that matter and that drive business outcomes. Matt managed and motivated his staff with leaderboards displayed on 70” TV’s across the offices. Everyone was engaged in the performance and progress of staff and the visibility of these things reinforced the high-performance culture that Bullock cultivated with staff at eWAY.
Spinify uses sales gamification to create friendly competition that builds a performance-driven culture overnight.

Matt's Story

Matt Bullock founded eWAY (payments made easy) in 1998 and formally launched the company in 2000. Matt calls Canberra home even though he has had offices across the globe. Bullock graduated from the University of Wollongong with a Bachelor of Computer Science.


He briefly worked for the Australian Public Service in Canberra and like many entrepreneurs used his spare time to set up eWAY. Matt showed his prescient side by recognizing the potential of the internet for eCommerce. He started out with servers in his home and a single bank… and few staff.


Matt moved from his garage into offices in Phillip and started the process of developing business relationships with the big four banks, building interfaces to hundreds of shopping carts (including the large global carts such as Shopify, Magenta and Big Commerce) and cultivating the developer community who would be key in recommending a payment gateway to the growing list of online retailers.


With the links to Australian banks completed in 2004, Bullock set his sights on New Zealand and by 2009 had partnered with all the major New Zealand banks, expanding payment services in the region. This was followed in 2011, by eWAY’s expansion into the United Kingdom and the establishment of regional branches in Edinburgh and Auckland. In 2014, eWAY expanded into Singapore, Hong Kong, and Malaysia.


Along with its regional expansions, eWAY partnered with major SaaS companies to provide integrated payment services. In 2013 eWAY partnered with Xero to produce the 'Pay Now' add-on for Xero online invoices. eWAY was awarded Xero Add-on Partner of the Year for 2013 for this functionality and the access it provided online small businesses. In 2014, eWAY built the Xero PayThis feature, allowing Xero users to pass on credit cards surcharges, and offer multiple options in a single invoice. PayThis used eWAY's Responsive Shared Page, simplifying the payment process for Xero users.


Similar ventures followed with the eWAY’s integration with NetSuite. The integration allows NetSuite users to facilitate credit card payments online, by phone, fax or mail utilizing NetSuite’s omnichannel approach. eWAY expanded its partnership with Magento by creating a new payment extension to improve integration and security features. eWAY's Shopify integration allows merchants to access high-level fraud protection, token payments to allow repeat purchasing and eWAY's PreAuth feature to reserve funds on a customer's credit card without charging it.


In December 2013 eWAY partnered with the National Australia Bank to launch eWAY Merchant Services in Australia. eWAY’s Online Merchant Services allow businesses to set up a payment gateway as well as an internet merchant account within the one eWAY account, reducing the time and fees it takes for businesses to set up online payments.


In July 2015, eWAY expanded into physical payments with the launch of SmartPOS. The mobile card reader integrates with Xero, Salesforce, and Shopify, and is compatible with Tap and Go and EFTPOS payments. Proof of purchase is sent either by email or SMS. The SmartPOS device links to iOS, Android and Apple Watch apps. In September 2015, eWAY launched an app that lets Apple Watch users accept payments through their smartwatch.


In October 2015, eWAY partnered with Kikka Capital, a Perth-based small business lender, which meant active eWAY merchants could apply for up to $100,000 line of credit in seven minutes based on real-time business performance information. In November 2015, eWAY became the first Australian payment gateway to offer a mobile integration with Apple Pay. eWAY merchants could accept Apple Pay transactions in their apps or in person with the eWAY SmartPOS device.


Prior to its sale in April 2016 eWAY had over 25,000 customers. In 2015, eWAY processed 5.8 billion online purchases, about a quarter of all internet transactions in Australia. eWAY had offices in North America, Asia, the United Kingdom, Australia, and New Zealand. Bullock won numerous awards for eWAY and personally for his innovation including the ACT Pearcey Entrepreneur Award 2011 and the ORIA Industry Recognition Award 2010.


In April 2016, eWay was purchased by Global Payments for over $US50m. Founder Matt Bullock instantly established Spinify, a new venture focused on workplace engagement and staff motivation. Bullock was awarded the 2016 Exit of the Year award by Australian Growth Company Awards.


Spinify Leaderboards reflect Bullock’s learnings and experience in running global Sales and Service teams and the continuous requirement to engage and motivate them to do more of the metrics that matter and that drive business outcomes. Bullock managed and motivated his staff with leaderboards displayed on 70” TV’s across the offices. Everyone was engaged in the performance and progress of staff and the visibility of these things reinforced the high-performance culture that Bullock cultivated with staff at eWAY.


In the early days of Spinify Matt sought out fellow CEO’s to discuss the prospect of re-inventing leaderboards by applying gamification principles and motivational psychology frameworks. The aim was to enhance the staff experience and lead them to work harder to achieve the business results and their individual KPI’s. The feedback from fellow “C” Suite executives confirmed the pain points associated with maintaining high levels of engagement and motivation. Bullock used this feedback to innovate the existing leaderboard business model.


After 6 months of intensive development, Spinify was launched at Dreamforce in October 2016 as the product synced with Salesforce data. Bullock had a hugely successful relationship with Salesforce while at eWAY and spoke at a number of the Dreamforce and Salesforce World Tours. Based on feedback from early users Bullock pivoted the company and is now reaping the rewards from new customers. Spinify developed integrations with a number of popular data apps to complement its Salesforce offering. These include a simple offering for users of Google Sheets and Slack as well as full leaderboard offerings for Customer Service Desk apps such as Zendesk and Freshdesk and for the coding community through Jira (an Atlassian product). Spinify also established an industry offering through the real estate product MyDesktop.


Bullock took the Pledge 1% alongside Scott Farquar from Atlassian, in 2015. Pledge 1% is a community of organizations who want to change the world through inspiring early-stage corporate philanthropy. Pledge 1% is an easy way to leverage a portion of a company’s future success to support charities and nonprofits in any community. It’s a small commitment today that can make a huge impact tomorrow. Bullock established his Foundation following taking this pledge.


In April 2016, Matt Bullock sold eWAY and transferred the Foundation to Spinify. The Spinify Foundation is a registered Charity in Australia and supports such nonprofit organizations as OzHarvest (the first perishable food rescue organization in Australia), Ronald McDonald House (who keep families close to seriously ill children) and the Kiln Incubator in Canberra (which assists entrepreneurs and start-up companies in Canberra). Bullock believes in giving back to the startup community.


Learn More About Pledge 1% https://spinify.org/ 

Links From Matt

Pledge 1%



Pledge 1% is a community of organizations who want to change the world through inspiring early–stage corporate philanthropy. Pledge 1% is an easy way to leverage a portion of a company’s future success to support charities and nonprofits in any community. It’s a small commitment today that can make a huge impact tomorrow.

Matt Bullock took the Pledge in 2015 alongside Scott Farquhar from Atlassian, another successful Australian company. He made this Pledge1% as the Founder and CEO of eWAY. In April, 2016, Matt Bullock sold eWAY and transferred the Foundation to Spinify his new business venture.

The Spinify Foundation is a registered Charity in Australia and support such nonprofit organizations as OzHarvest (the first perishable food rescue organisation in Australia), Ronald McDonald House (who keep families close to seriously ill children) and the Kiln Incubator in Canberra (which assists entrepreneurs and start-up companies in Canberra).


Drift is the world’s first and only conversational marketing platform. Learn More Here https://www.drift.com/

Conversational Marketing

How the World's Fastest Growing Companies Use Chatbots to Generate Leads 24/7/365 (and How You Can Too)

Real-time conversations turn leads into customers

Conversational Marketing is the definitive guide to generating better leads and closing more sales. Traditional sales and marketing methods have failed to keep pace with the way modern, internet-savvy consumers purchase goods and services. Modern messaging apps, which allow for real-time conversations and instant feedback, have transformed the way we interact in our personal and professional lives, yet most businesses still rely on 20th century technology to communicate with 21st century customers. Online forms, email inquiries, and follow-up sales calls don’t provide the immediacy that modern consumers expect. Conversational marketing and sales are part of a new methodology centered around real-time, one-on-one conversations with customers via chatbots and messaging.  By allowing your business to communicate with customers in real time—when it’s most convenient for them—conversational marketing improves the customer experience, generates more leads, and helps you convert more leads into customers.


Conversational Marketing pioneers David Cancel and Dave Gerhardt explain how to:

    • Merge inbound and outbound tactics into a more productive dialog with customers
    • Integrate conversational marketing techniques into your existing sales and marketing workflow

Face-to-face meetings, phone calls, and email exchanges remain important to customer relations, but adding a layer of immediate, individual conversation drives the customer experience—and sales—sky-high.

57| Matt Bullock: Founder & CEO of Spinify 157| Matt Bullock: Founder & CEO of Spinify 2

Episode Transcriptions Unedited, AI Auto-Generated.

Speaker 1: 00:04 Okay.

Speaker 2: 00:05 Welcome to the social community show where it's all going up. You learn, grow and transform in a person who I've become today. I had the pleasure of talking with Matt Bullock. Matt founded a company in the process is secure credit card payments for merchants in 1998 and formally launched the company in 2000 with the links to Australian banks completed in 2004 he set his sights on New Zealand and by 2009 had partnered with all the major news in the banks. He's spending payment services in the region. This was founded in 2011 by [inaudible] expansion into the United Kingdom in 2014 anyway, then expanded into Singapore or Hong Kong and Malaysia I. Late 2015 Ebay became the first Australian payment gateway to offer a mobile integration with apple pay before it sale. In April, 2016 we had over 25,000 customers and processed five point $8 billion in online purchases. In 2015 I bought a quarter of all internet transactions in Australia.

Speaker 2: 01:00 After the sale of [inaudible] founder Matt Bullock instantly establish Spinify in new venture focused on workplace engagement and staff motivation. In early days of Spinify, Matt sought out fellow Ceos to discuss the prospect of reinventing leaderboards by applying gamification principles and motivational psychological framework. The AME has was to enhance the staff experience and lead them to work harder to achieve the business goals and their KPI's, key performance indicators Spinify leaderboards reflect massive learning and experiencing rain global sales and service teams and the continuous requirements engage and motivate them to do more of the metrics that matter. We spent a Phi you can create leaderboards to celebrate and motivate your team in real time via amazing gamification techniques. Matt knew that end gate staff who are motivated would provide a small uplift in sales performance individually and that would build across the team having in dramatic impact on revenue, not as really mastered this gamification principle. Do talk quite a bit about that. I hope you guys can gain a lot from not only his knowledge but what he's doing in this space. Without further ado, welcome Matt. Matt, welcome to the social community show. Is definitely an honor and a privilege to connect with you and have you on here today.

Speaker 3: 02:17 Oh, thank you. Thanks for the invite.

Speaker 2: 02:18 No problem with you. So you'll, you, you done just, just, just so much, um, w with creating this, this great company, ea and an offer to us and to find whatnot. I wanted to know how, how do you identify gaps in the market or it's opportunities to bring innovation and solutions you guys did so much, especially with [inaudible] and now it's been a bio of, you know, being first is, you know, bringing first things Australia, bringing all this innovation. So how do you give a framework for how you identify these things? How do you think about that?

Speaker 3: 02:50 For me on, on both cases are really just about problems that I had that I was trying to solve. So with Ayi rights and software, uh, and I was trying to sell it through pipe pile and when you use ago, it was a very horrible experience. Not because I could just do a better and uh, assigned with a wise, I had like 72 TVs in my screen and I, I use different products there and experiencing it was just horrible. I thought I could just do it better. So the main things that I've, I've done personally out of need and, and felt the pine, all this then I wanted to go out and sell.

Speaker 4: 03:23 And that's really just kind of seems to be a story a lot of times where, you know, people just solving their own problems and then wind up connecting with more people at the scene seem problem.

Speaker 3: 03:33 Yeah, totally. I mean, and also for me, I mean I did payments, which is a very serious thing and now doing gamification, which is all about fun. So it wasn't, it was a good transition. The jump from that one world to this world.

Speaker 4: 03:45 Yes, definitely. I know that I, you know, I'm not sure how it is in Australia and there's so much regulation here in America, so many things you've got to do and apply for and whatnot. I mean, I've never been in the process. I've, I've heard a lot about it, so yeah, that's gotta be a hard, hard world to live in.

Speaker 3: 04:00 Yeah. It's a hard world, but I'm in, it's a, it's a doable, well, I just, I just like it had gamifications all about fun and what we're trying to do with just minifies is motivate people and, and uh, you know, I might take job and they have lots of fun and help that problem with people who are just feel leasing, which affects a lot of people.

Speaker 4: 04:19 Was that why, why did you start and spin it by what did you, what did you see? When did you, you know, I know this started with you when you were the way, but what was the moment where you were like, there's something here and I need to just double down on this. What does that look like?

Speaker 3: 04:31 Well for me it was about, even though I had a 72 TVs in rough as I still had a sales manager with a whiteboard sitting behind your desk. So it was about how do I really get rid of this whiteboard and why fix it that when someone does something in south soles for example, but then pops puts it on the TV that everyone can see it immediately. And crates that incident competition as opposed to someone getting out 90 rotting on the whiteboard, maybe not writing on the whiteboard. And then the other thing was I had bills, uh, and they went and people have to get up and ring the bell, but some people didn't want to bring the bill. Some people lending ring the bell like Dang. And I'm like, then I bring in the bill. And so what we, what we do at Spinify with the TVS as well as play someone's youtube song and actually celebrate that person, they did that achievement, which is good from a how recognition pay point of view that someone, you know, getting celebrated for something I did. And as a boss, you can kind of walk around and say, well done that trying to do that every single time is practically impossible, but that the TV will never not forget to say, well done to someone for actually achieving something.

Speaker 5: 05:38 Okay.

Speaker 4: 05:38 Yeah. What are, what are some of the good things you guys have seen with this scheme? Application process.

Speaker 5: 05:43 Okay.

Speaker 3: 05:44 Oh, it's, there's just pain. Um, suddenly different outcomes of, uh, from some, many different industries, from people being a increasing number of Kohl's I do for people just increasing number of revenues I might. And uh, along that, it's just really been about something really simple, which is just visibility of the data. So if the staff can see what those numbers are and they also have a target, they're going to hit, uh, they, they push and it makes a difference as opposed to a whiteboard. And that says, I've got 56, 56, 156 may, uh, as compared to something like on the screen of fire where I'm 56, but my, my kind of sixties on, I'm really, really close. I'm gonna make it.

Speaker 5: 06:32 Yeah.

Speaker 6: 06:33 So you know, with with that I hear the positive, I was thinking what, is there anything like negative that happens? Like people will look at that and say, you know, I'm in faith, I'm not, I'm not a second place kind of guy. I'm not a winner. I can't get there and maybe get the press or saying, you know what I'm going to do whatever I gotta do to be first. Whether it's in lie, cheat, steal a bribe, people do they see something like that. And if you do, what do you guys do to maybe combat against that or training or teaching.

Speaker 3: 06:59 So it's not really about first the thing that we focus on it and it's not really about the bottom either. It's about the middle. Okay. And so if you shoot a few people to be the top, because the top person's always the top very hard, but people down the bottom potentially then really belong in your organization. If you can shift the middle 5% it changes everything because it's a lot of people and everyone moves up. Okay. So let's say we try and carry triple to use user. This is to get general encouragement of everyone that try and lift. Uh, as for the negative side, we purely only focus on the positive. So we would show someone who over took someone, uh, show that someone who's moving out, I'm putting a green now are there and just fibrous on. He's something positive that's happening. Not, you know, he's a person who's just fallen down eight advisors.

Speaker 3: 07:48 And then we, we've got, you know, many, many settings where you can do things right and say, right, if you're at zero, I don't want to show you if you're on the bottom 10%, I'm not going to show you. So we'll wait until you've actually got going in the competition before you become visible. And all those sorts of things, uh, help, uh, other things on top of that is like saying, well, you're the top sales guy. I'm going to set your target twice as hard as everyone else. So on the progress bars, I can now say that you will not really number one anymore. You a number. Now number three, even though you've done what would be your target is, is higher. And that's a way to let everyone compete evenly.

Speaker 5: 08:29 Yeah.

Speaker 6: 08:29 Oh, I see.

Speaker 3: 08:31 Constantly. Go ahead. Sorry. We just constantly focusing on the positive side and that was what I was talking about before with the achievement that you've done something well you've achieved something, put your face up, play your youtube video.

Speaker 6: 08:44 It's really clever how you are. You, you make sure you don't have that a really big gap or that you know that guy, you know whatever. Tom Is always winning. You can show up percentage of goal. Not necessarily what the goal is. My goal maybe 20 you're going to be maybe 50 but we're both 48 49% away from our goal and that does, I can see how that could foster more competition and more positivity.

Speaker 3: 09:07 Yeah. It's also good for that top person as well to make them fight a little bit harder. Right. Otherwise you have like a bunch of people that are the top table on it. Then you have a lot of people aren't, you can just put them in a separate competition, separate leaderboard altogether as well, so the TV will just loop around them. You don't have to have everyone together is something that people worry about initially, but then they realized that it isn't something you really need to worry about at all.

Speaker 6: 09:34 Yeah, that was, I mean that was some, one of the few things I thought about how I wonder how people try to try to gain the system or how to try and cheat the way around winning and different things like that. And it sounds like you guys have really thought a lot about that and put a lot of ways to modify things so that it's a little harder to get that are not falling into a depression or whatever.

Speaker 3: 09:55 Yes. So the front of cheating perspective in someone to figure that one had to do with it. When that, when we're connected to something like salesforce.com you can't really treat it because if it's about cause one opportunities, uh, and then you closed one, a whole bunch of rock, choose that just because you want the win on the leaderboard. It's gonna, it's gonna catch up with you at some point. That's not what it isn't. We also have a, um, a performance vilified performance grid, which, uh, using that grid, but it's, uh, it's got to two axes on it, which is, um, outcomes versus activities. So on that, that will show you some things. If someone's doing something silly in someone's closed a lot of deals, got a lot of outcomes but hasn't actually done any activities, hasn't done any phone calls. I haven't had any meetings, several hedge cause they was reading straight to him and we call that person a hacker. And that packer you really should be warned about, could even just say that fundamentally. It just doesn't make sense.

Speaker 6: 10:54 Ah, yeah. I see. I see how you guys have thought about this. Um, it seems like you're really good at really thinking ahead. It's solving problems. What, what is your thinking process like? How do you, how do you go through this? Do you have a framework or what do you reference from, or how do you think about that?

Speaker 3: 11:08 So for me, just like we saw, I suppose it's all about the customer. So we constantly focus on what does the customer want. Uh, so we get, we get lots and lots of feedback. We have live chat on our website. So, uh, we're currently using drift, but we get lots and lots of feedback from that chat. And then what we do is we pull the customers and then if I, if we get 60%, uh, that people wanting a particular idea, they move seriously consider building. And if we get 80%, we'll just build it. Even if we think it's crazy because we just think, well this one, the customer based ones, so we're just going to kind of build and appalling really has about trying to understand cause you, you and you have so much time to build and trying to figure out what is the key feature that people are really going to want that's going to float their boat.

Speaker 6: 12:00 What, what was one of the craziest things you guys are like, you know, I hit the 80% threshold. So our rule is we build it and you were just, you guys are just thinking this is, this is just crazy. There's no reason or way this is going to succeed. But it did. You have an example like that?

Speaker 3: 12:15 Yeah, not really. Cause I pretty much think that everything that people invited for the easiest guy, you know what I want went to go back a critical number. If I even thought it was crazy, I now go, you don't want to sound crazy. So I haven't, I don't think we've ever built, we've built our own ideas that were crazy. So we had a content, the person Fido on there, we had a concept called Moods where you had to upload a sad face, a happy face. And I'm really excited by vice when change based on your performance. Uh, but we could never get anyone that you're tying up getting filled up like one five level entry. So that was something that we had that we ended up dropping below. It would have been so cool if everyone did it because you'd see all these faces and expressions changing, but trying to get people to do that was too crazy, too difficult.

Speaker 6: 13:01 Do you guys ever go to like an Avatar or you just kind of got rid of the Ivr together?

Speaker 3: 13:05 Well, so we have, we have avatars. So some people don't upload photos. We find it's really important for the engagement that you actually have the picture. I'm a person on the TV.

Speaker 5: 13:16 Yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:16 So I can say it's my name, it's using, it's all about me. This was the thing I did. This is what I'm doing here. It's very personal as opposed to just having a name and a number of those. It's harder for people to connect.

Speaker 6: 13:28 Right? Yeah. You get that personalization and whatnot. I can see how that would work out. What, what has been the best failure you have when you look back and say, you know, I, I'm glad I went through this and I learned a lot. And, and what was that like? What did you learn? How did you think about, how'd you get through that?

Speaker 5: 13:45 Yeah.

Speaker 3: 13:46 Oh, I think for me, the building product, uh, has, has, has been a real learning curve compared to how he used to build product and the way in the fact that we're just, we're doing really short sprints. So when we're talking to a customer, uh, we're finding out about an idea. We've heard that we think it's a good idea and then we'll, we'll build it and then we're releasing it thankfully that day or the next day. And that the why that we built on AWS lambda and serverless, that we can very quickly go from idea to execution. Uh, and, and then also on that execution that once that's live, we have the concept that everyone gets it. So we don't have separate instances that a large company gets and someone else gets something else once the trees for every one.

Speaker 5: 14:36 Yeah.

Speaker 3: 14:36 The, the speed, uh, and really understand the MVP. So even, um, talking to customers and understanding what they want and then really dialing back out where you want these. But really what it really is, is just this little bit and we just do this, that's going to get you 90% there, which is enough. And figuring it out as opposed to building the mother ship. That will go a cow. But let me take us six months and here we go to that as opposed to just trying to get that one thing out that takes a lot of boxers. And we find Ivan Tom now more of these things that we'd done. Then when we have a sales call, people's eye [inaudible], I'm really master this. That's really, really good to do that. We get, yeah, we do all those things and like, oh, okay, and and mobilize for the conversation to have where people come with their whole perceptions about what gamification is and what it needs to do and that we satisfy them from the go. It's so much easier to sell.

Speaker 6: 15:33 What are the objections or or or pitfalls whenever did you hear from customers that you guys really have to deal with on a, on a constant basis?

Speaker 3: 15:43 I think the hardest one, and it's just people in business generally like, okay, we need gamification. We should put something up on the TVS. We should increase the visibility, we should change the office culture, and then they'll say, but I've done all my KPIs are, I don't know. I don't know what I should be measuring. Which in a time world is completely insane. Yeah. If you've got staff and they're doing something and that they are not being measured. And I don't even know what their measure, what they should be doing. Like should they make 50 calls a day? Should they talk to 10 meetings a week worth? What should it be that you should have that time? And that was trying to load the people that struggled, trying to understand what that target is. And I think once they've got it and they say that's the number and then it helps the staff as well.

Speaker 3: 16:29 But by final now in number they tried to hit something. And uh, I think the other thing on top of that is people generally focused on the outcome. We must do 50 grand's worth of deals. The die will be some smart. But really the thing that you should focus on is what's the activity that drives the outcome. And that's the thing to put on the leaderboard. If I make 50 calls a day, I will get 10 deals. I'd book 10 meetings if I see so many tasks. So whatever it is that you need to do in that others mainly in that sales process, but it can be in service or anything that will drive that outcome. And I think that that initially uh, wasn't an issue but it becomes less and less. There's also a list of it as well now, but the field of putting notes Matrix in front of the staff and like all my work's not going to do has it going to affect the culture.

Speaker 3: 17:27 But I think not doing it small crazies in doing it cause it's, it's suddenly openness. It's like he's the company, you can have teams but things that sustains. You can have single metrics for the whole company and then you can have individuals. So it doesn't just have to be about the individual. Some, some places don't have anything about the individual because it's truly about teams they use versus where's this is what we're doing, but at least having something that you trying to achieve and then whatever you did last one, pay you do a better and getting this one. Hello. You're just doing something right that really, no. Is it good? Is a bad, we just did it. Okay. Do we get to have a good man? Oh yeah. How'd we go off? Same as last month. I think it's okay.

Speaker 6: 18:14 Yeah, that's a, that's a, that's a good, that's a good point is, you know, it's, it's hard. You know, we can just head west all day long, but we don't know where we're going. We're just going to keep going west until we go around the world. And as Nice. Do you guys walk them through, through the process of, of, of, of identifying and Kpis are trying to hone in on them or is that something you guys just say, here's a framework, go ahead and get that done and come back to us.

Speaker 3: 18:35 Oh, W we tell, we show them a whole bunch of examples of what people have done with the name of the dice. It's different for every business about wall moves the needle.

Speaker 5: 18:45 Yeah.

Speaker 3: 18:45 And then most people just get out, get out of the, through that whole thing and actually figure out, okay, this is what to do on a, on a really simple basis. You just put the outcome out there. Okay. So how many deals did we win? And it's purely just about dollars. And in some instances like, um, real estate. Yeah, just thinking about doubles can be okay. Because they're very much focused just on dollars.

Speaker 6: 19:11 And then I want to, I want to talk about, um, how did you, how did you get involved with this? A pledge 1%. What did, what was it about that that was maybe different or better that really wants you to get involved in route? Really, I'm very public about it,

Speaker 3: 19:27 so I'm a pledge 1% ambassador. I, I did the Pledge Sham in Sydney with the guys from at laseon. Uh, and for me, uh, we had a sick child and um, we ended up doing a lot of stuff. We run them a doll house and he's essentially admin. He's all good now. But, um, as a result of going through that whole experience, um, my wife works one day a week, volunteers at wound doll house and then we set up a foundation. And as part of that foundation, we give away $50,000 every year to people like Ron Dahl House. And for me it just makes sense. So part of that 1% pledge is giving back as well. So not just the charities. I help businesses with salesforce, telling them all the crazy things that I've done and how to fix those things. So I spend a lot of time telling people what you should do, shouldn't do.

Speaker 3: 20:22 And then I also do, I just did one two days ago where, uh, do courses on optimization for people's websites. So, so anything, you know, giving back is cool. So that whole thing of how do we give something back? And if everyone just gave 1 cent, uh, W it would change the whole world. It's such a simple concept, but so many more people can it that would just make a massive difference. I know I'm bad that 1% as well. You give it to something that actually matters to you and your staff, which then makes the staff feel happy and it's just a good cultural thing. So other thing is also for Aussie, someone's in not for profit. Uh, and we work, we live with lots of them. That will give them very, very special pricing because we understand that it's odd world that they're in.

Speaker 5: 21:13 Yeah.

Speaker 6: 21:13 Yes. I, I looked into, it's very light. It's a really amazing being at, it's either, um, you can do 1% a equity, which I thought was really amazing. Uh, 1% of charitable product or 1% of your time, or you can do all three and I know you get a tray. Yeah. Yes.

Speaker 3: 21:29 Yeah. And, and it's, it's up to you about as a person, which one you decided to do. So it's not like a 27 the police thing, it's up to you how much you give, I think at times, but you more than 1%. So it's all about what works for you.

Speaker 6: 21:48 No, under the it is, it is a good thing. Yes. Yes it is. I love, I love it. It's great. And you know, are places one person is a rounding error, you know, so, and 1% of your time that, that's not a lot, you know, you know, unlocking it. I think it really, it sounds like it lowers the bar to entries are people that maybe don't normally do that kind of stuff. Like, you know, 1% not a big thing. It's a few minutes of my time here and there, a little bit of money or whatever.

Speaker 3: 22:14 Yeah. That makes a massive difference to people aren't seeing the things that, the help that we've given people in the money and the how grateful on the outcomes and the term for it. And you look on a bigger scale, um, people like Benioff from salesforce and he's like built a children's hospital. Wow. So you, who knows where it ends on given that 1%. And then the other thing, guys, I hadn't breeding programs that have helped hundreds of thousands of kids around the world learn to read. So it's about finding things that you're passionate about and things that you want to help people with. And I, you know, the whole thing also, I bet giving discounts on your product as well makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 5: 22:51 Yeah,

Speaker 6: 22:51 definitely. I love the mission. I love the thing. I love that it's, it's an easy barrier to entry and we can get a lot of people involved and make a huge difference. 1%, I mean, 1% of any that we talked about the law here on the show, if you just get 1% better every day or every week or every month, that's 12% gain over over a year. He, people fight for a lifetime for that kind of stuff. But if we just work just a little bit, whatever it is every day, month or week, you can make huge strides in, in your life.

Speaker 3: 23:19 Yeah. And you have a look at all the companies have done it. They're crazy in it. And that's what Spinify is all about, is putting that data up on the screen to go, okay, well we did this last month or last week. How did we do better? And to do better, you have to measure it, right? Cause if you don't measure it, you don't know what you did. See that and know what you gotta do. The other part on it, it's really important is, uh, having time. So I know, you know, I'm, I'm 56, I already get 60, but how long have I got to get this? So another important part is saying, I've got two days to get there, I've got two weeks to get there. And having that time in that camp timer, uh, pushes you to do something that creates that urgency of what it is as opposed to what bold that you just have to from six written on. It doesn't, it's not telling me how quick I'm going to do this thing. Right?

Speaker 5: 24:09 Yeah.

Speaker 4: 24:09 Yeah. I guess, you know, from what I understand, we drastically overestimate what we can accomplish in a year, but we underestimate what we can accomplish in 10 years. So I guess I liked that to have that, that process, what does this look like? How do we visualize this? How do we say we're here now? What's working, what's not working? What are we doing? Where are we going? And then creating that roadmap to where you want to be.

Speaker 3: 24:31 Yeah. And we, and we talked to people cause we, we worked with a guy name UK Chow. He was like a gamification God. And he came up with a thing called the OC tell us framework, which is all these different ways to identify people. And he talks about things like epic goal. So it shouldn't just be about one leaderboard board, it should be, it should be a better leader board that you're trying to do something for this week. And then you have a bigger leader board that you might be trying to do something for a mum and then you might have a target that you're trying to do for everyone caught up. And all of those things, some up to be doing something epic and opposed to, I just think to make 50 calls a day. Right. And then when you've got all those things tied in with messaging, that's what draws people in culture to make a change. And the shift of trying to get that stuff done cause cause they bought into the message.

Speaker 5: 25:19 Yeah.

Speaker 4: 25:19 Right. And everybody's got the same, same purpose, the same goals, the same direction. Everybody can band together and help each other and grow and move forward. And everybody knows where their head is.

Speaker 5: 25:28 Okay.

Speaker 3: 25:29 Yeah. And that, and that was gone. I was cooking made up of company goals or they couldn't even team goals. So it doesn't just have to be individuals, but everyone is fighting for something and every company is doing this. It's just, hey, you actually represented and get that messaging across cause row. Oh companies are all full of people and we're all trying to achieve something to get something done.

Speaker 5: 25:49 Okay.

Speaker 4: 25:50 Yeah, you guys would be, I like the way you guys have found that a fun, innovative way to visualize that and show that, show the progress. Uh, where are we today? Where are we headed? How far along are we on that journey?

Speaker 3: 26:02 Yeah, no, I mean that was the hardest thing in the whole field of the spinner fibers. So I had is how do you take that data and put it on the, on the screen, because there's lots of other products out there, but they also look like call centers was 58,000 different numbers on it. You can't read it. So one of our main things was that if you stand 30 feet back from the TV, that you can actually read it because there's stuff out there like you've seen call centers where that the numbers are terrible. Like the only person who really seems to care about those numbers out of the manager, not the staff. So it's not going to change the outcome. And so whatever is response time to pick up the phone with 2.3 seconds, we need to make a 2.2 seconds. But as a general staff member that I'm trying to do something, do I really care? I'm gonna change my behavior. Is it fun? Take key question of either fun really comes across everything that we do go and we use. It's going to be fun. You just going to motivate me. Am I going to get excited about it? And if the answer's no of them, we just won't do it.

Speaker 6: 27:04 I like that. I like the philosophy. We definitely not more fun in our lives, period.

Speaker 3: 27:09 Yeah, totally. And especially at work. Work can be a boring place, right? So do they things that that's why we've got things like you can pick a racing car on the color you want. Lay the board has a racing car guy. Right. So you can even pick done ups thing on that pink done. That's where I'm on my leaderboard. But again, it's just another quirky different way of showing the data and trying to have a bit of fun.

Speaker 6: 27:34 Yeah, sounds like it helps people express their personality and the different things they're into and kind of make that shine and have a sense of ownership and pride in what they're doing and the goals are achieving and

Speaker 3: 27:46 hundred percent and then the old pod back into the company's branding philosophy. Definitely. Cause that's, that's important as well.

Speaker 6: 27:55 Oh absolutely. Yes. That, that, that is straight. If you can get your employees behind it, um, you know, they're gonna take care of the customers in each other and everything along the lines. What does, um, what does the typical morning look like for Udl? But you know, maybe the first 60 to 90 minutes, do you have habits or routines that you just like to do every day to kind of get you going and keep you on track with things?

Speaker 3: 28:17 I have a specifies in Australia. It's also in Canada. So I have a stand up call every morning standup calls. Um, probably like a sit down, lay down cold. It really goes on for like an hour, sometimes an hour and a half. What we're doing is talking about what each team did a overnight and then what the other team's going to do. Um, what, what customers are talking about, what we need to do, where we need to focus and product development of what, what's this looking like, how, how are we progressing with this? And then, then after that, then I then have a, so that was cool. That's a development kind of customer. Colin and I have a sales call and then the structure, but may have to that coal is, it changes every single day. It's all about what I'm focused on that I'm trying to move the needle in their company. So I might be, I might be crazy for a week on marketing, on my them be crazy for a week on product and I then might be crazy for sales and then some days I'm doing all three. Um, I'm generally just focused on one of those three types of things that I'm trying to push or solve something or do something.

Speaker 6: 29:35 Is there any, any, any book or books or things like that that really helped you on your journey to where you are today and all the things you've accomplished?

Speaker 3: 29:44 Uh, yeah, there's a, I can't remember the name. I'm just going to have a look. There's a, um, uh, I I saw, I used to use intercom, which is, which is a great product, a chat porch. And I recently have started using drift, which the reason I started using it because I liked the bolts of what we're doing. Each column has Paul Cause I just found these bolts and then need to comb and I'm trying to find the book. Uh, here it is conversational marketing and it's, it's written by the founder of drift. Okay. It's, it's a, it's a very easy read, but it's a, the whole concept is killing foams. And anyway, you have a form on your website, turning it into a ball and then having very personalized messaging. So you've come to a gamification page, I know your name and I'll pop it up and go, hey Bobby, how are you?

Speaker 3: 30:57 And I had that connection and it'll know that I'm a, that you're a lead in salesforce and put my name and the person chatting. We'll say it's actually a message that came from me. And then the bolt will then take them through a journey of collecting questions and booking that meeting. And so we've found that we did to come, we will using it more like something like part of it, it drips and forever just constantly going back to someone's saying, Hey David, do you want to try? Do you want to chat? Uh, as, as opposed to drift to where we're not even need it at all because the box doing all the work, the Balts asking the questions and people are actually answering them, which is cool. And it's booking the meetings.

Speaker 6: 31:40 Wow. Very, very personalized is the key to it. Kind of lower the barrier to entry, get people a little bit more warmed up with, like you were saying, you're not filling out a form. Is that, does that increase the conversion rate or anything like that? Increase the, the, the followup, the link that they're going through these things.

Speaker 3: 32:03 Yeah, we're absolutely getting more people to interact with us and it's a lot of building landing pages as well and having those landing pages have a specific conversation about, hey, you're looking at this thing we noticed, do you want to chat on this thing? Very, very specific as opposed to I just click on this button and start a free trial.

Speaker 6: 32:24 Right. Yeah, I like that. I can see how they can get the conversation going. Help with objections. I'm questions that they have.

Speaker 3: 32:34 Absolutely. So all the stuff that you would normally say, the box doing it and then sending them on multiple piles and at all times as well. The bottle size. Same. We'll do just want to speak to a human. Yeah. I just want to make Turkey minute and then someone will kick in and go, yeah, hi, how are Ya? That's nice. But it's, it's quite, it's quite about what they've done with this whole conversational marketing and, and that book is a great, a really easy read and it really, really talks about the whole theory of chat and how you can really get rid of foams forms a terrible people don't fill them out.

Speaker 4: 33:11 Yes, they don't. Right. And you've got to have less than like

Speaker 3: 33:14 both of them out. Yeah. Yeah. And I, and for me, I mean look at the front as well, but you, you, you know, as the marketer, you really want to collect 20 things that you know, that the more fields you have on there, the less chance someone's going to fill it out.

Speaker 4: 33:28 Right, right, right.

Speaker 3: 33:29 Yeah. We're constantly like stripping back and then you just make some harder than others for the southwest and you're getting less data, but it's all about how many leads you get.

Speaker 4: 33:39 Right. Yeah. And if you can't give me the key with those leads, then it's really, really hard uphill battle.

Speaker 3: 33:45 Yeah. It's crazy. Another thing that tripped us, which is very interesting is uh, cause we also use a product called Calendly, but we're starting to use drifted, uh, as well. Uh, that hooks the meetings and it does some cool things where it says, hi, I'm available these three times of which, which works, which is better than just saying to someone, he's my whole calendar. Can you pick something? So there's lots of stuff talking about when you give people less options, pick something as opposed to just saying, well here's a blank piece of paper. You pick a date.

Speaker 3: 34:18 Yeah. A lot of good research on that. And then things like, uh, the followup email to tell someone that you have got the meeting booked. A crypto is also doing things like, uh, sending an email to the rep which goes out and looks at all the data, uh, and then says this is what this person is an easy their profile, which kind of helps the conversation along that high and noticed this about your company. The other part is really interesting is that we, we use a product called Cleveland in there where we, we get, we get lots of information. There's other companies like deal with the same sort of information where we can find out what technologies they've got installed. The Bot can pop up and say, Oh, hi, I'm choosing using salesforce because we've, we've looked at their website and we've seen what's on there. And we, uh, we, we know what sort of company they're from. We know would Cisco's on our website, uh, we know their location is like 200 and something bits of data that we know. And then from that we can also route the lead to different people, have different conversations, uh, flag it as a VIP and really just do some intelligent processing as opposed to just go, I might just have a chat.

Speaker 4: 35:30 Right. And you can probably tailor the offerings you have like, hey, did you know, we, we, we work so far so we're a partner or whatever it is that you guys are, are doing whatever. I'm sure that really helps a lot. Yeah.

Speaker 3: 35:41 Yeah. So we're an IC. And then from a service perspective, uh, we just, we, we were using them in to come from a service because it's just, it's good enough that you can do that whole thing that we recently flipped to zen desk and they set up their whole help desk, a portal. And now that we have that portal, we can actually, we've gotten a Bot, uh, now now saying I, uh, he's, he's a question that pops up game, here's the possible answers in drift. And the person says, well, this is the answer. No. Okay. That's on the answer. Would you like to credit case those guys? Yes. Okay. What's your problem? The person who is blah, blah, blah, blah at Thompson in and it Christ's locations end desk. Oh, thanks. It's tried. It's tried to do case deflection by getting the knowledge and knowledge didn't work and then it's, it's flipped over, um, to actually create the case without a person being in there and the person doesn't even need to be in there for that experience. It's, it, it's a good experience, uh, for the end user on a service perspective.

Speaker 4: 36:53 I, I like that. I think that you want to bump to do.

Speaker 5: 36:57 Yeah.

Speaker 4: 36:59 Um, what, where, where can people find out more about what you're up to if they want to connect that they want to learn more about, um, about, about the companies and everything that you're doing.

Speaker 5: 37:09 Yeah,

Speaker 3: 37:09 I see. Got To spin up [inaudible] dot com so perfect. Bang, click, click on the chat. Bottled bottle, proper

Speaker 4: 37:17 toasted talk. Talk to the Chat Bot Chat Bot first. I was willing to that in show notes for everybody so that we can usually get in there. I've seen C to a up to see, see, uh, what's been advised guy going on. I looked through their stuff. Um, it, it some really awesome stuff and I really, I'm really kind of excited about the way that, that kind of thing, those things are heading and I can just see the potential and encouraging people and building camaraderie and teamwork and all those things.

Speaker 3: 37:44 Yeah, absolutely. It's all, like I said in the beginning, it's all about making work fun and weird. We're super excited to be on this journey.

Speaker 4: 37:50 Yes, definitely. Um, I hear an associate community show, we like to, um, to challenge, to challenge our listeners and our viewers out there too, to get, like we were saying earlier that that 1% better. Um, and I'd like you to be the one that issues this week's challenge.

Speaker 3: 38:08 So, so for me, I'm, you know, I'll sign before is um, if you're a business and you don't, you don't have your set Kpi's, you don't know, don't even have, you don't have, you might have KPIs that we want to make this much revenue. Do you have KPIs for actually activities that you staff must be doing and if you don't set them

Speaker 5: 38:26 yeah.

Speaker 3: 38:27 And then if you want to take it to another level, use spinach pie.

Speaker 4: 38:30 Yeah, absolutely. But it's good.

Speaker 3: 38:32 Set those levels, figure out what they are and make your staff aware that I need you to do 10 meetings a day. Whatever it is. You've got to do these things and then push him to get those things. Go at Bobby. You've only done, you've only done five. Let's go, man, it's three o'clock. You got another five to go. Let's go. Let's go.

Speaker 4: 38:53 Yeah. But if we, that's an issue. We have no idea where we're headed and that's, that's great. Is there anything else that we haven't touched on that you want to make sure that you shared? Are you talked about here today?

Speaker 3: 39:06 Uh, no. For me, I, you know, people take business too seriously and we're trying to put the fun back in it but still get those outcomes. So, uh, push hard would have a good time, I guess my message to people about because

Speaker 4: 39:21 definitely, and you, you would've gotten, knows all about that. You with your, with your gamification and all those things. Thank you so, so much for being here today. I know, I know you're very busy and it's very early in Australia. I really do appreciate it and I hope you everybody out there really got a lot out of this and learn something from Matt today.

Speaker 3: 39:38 Yeah. Cool man. Great talking to everyone.

Speaker 2: 39:42 Cheers. All right, welcome back iceman. That was a great interview with Matt. Um, just an absolute pleasure to learn from somebody who's done so much things. Um, I really do encourage you guys to look into this pledge 1%. I think it's a really great organization is a great concept and it's, it's so, such a small thing, 1%, um, it, it doesn't even feel like anything but the impact and the potential is so great. Um, you guys can head over to [inaudible] dot org check that out. There's um, billings in the show notes to that. Make sure you guys reach out to Matt and Spinify and see what he's up to. See if there's something you can use for your organization I think is absolutely fantastic and great concept and idea like we talked about and for this month's giveaway, you know, like, like, like we always talk about here, we're looking for great innovation.

Speaker 2: 40:35 We're constantly out there. I'm reading things, doing new new things, checking out services and products and things to help improve our lives here on the show and our processes and our businesses. And we want to share those with you guys. We want to give you guys that lift, that help, whatever it is we got going on this month to help you guys grow that, that 1% like we talk about, whether it's, you know, you're growing 1% monthly, weekly or daily, things that help you may have a more efficient, effective, productive life. Whatever it is that we find that we're using, we're in love with. To help you guys check it out. Head over to the social chameleon.show. Let us help you get a leg up on these things by entering the giveaway. We love getting stuff away. We love interacting with companies and products. You know something.

Speaker 2: 41:22 Let us know and we'll take a look and see if it's something we can, we can get you guys. As always, the best way to help grow the community yourself is sharing this, discussing it, teaching it with other people. If you like what we're doing, ah, leaving a review, liking episode, reviewing it. Let us know how we're doing. We love feedback, whether it's good or bad. Let us know what's up. Uh, in between shows. You guys can connect with us on social media at social community show on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Also, you can subscribe to the Youtube version of this or subscribe in your favorite podcast app for past episodes and links. Everything we talk about her on the show today. Is it the social community in that show and until next time, have fun at work. Play out how hard I work. Like Matt was saying, it's a great concept and continue learning and growing and transforming into the person you want to become.


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