Juliet Clark:

In this episode, I talk with Juliet Clark. Juliet is a dynamic and sought-after speaker and podcaster, who has spent the last twenty years helping authors, coaches, speakers, and small businesses all over the world build expert platforms. 

Corporate companies, startups, and author/ speaker incubators worldwide have benefited from Juliet’s unique and massively effective method of mastering lead generation and qualification for expert status. 

Juliet created a platform-building tool that assesses audience obstacles, generates leads, and qualifies leads for businesses. This simple technology can be used on social media, from the stage, and at workshops to build email lists and create conversations that build long- term relationships with potential clients. Her podcast, Promote, Profit, Publish, helps entrepreneurs understand how to use great tools in the coaching and small business spaces.

Enjoy the episode!


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Founder of Winsome Media Group and Author
I started out in the world of traditional publishing and advertising and thought that I would easily make a bestseller list with my first self-published book. What I encountered was a publishing model that sold promotional packages that did not serve the authors and unsubstantiated back- end markups that left little money in the pockets of authors, while everyone else got made money. I knew there had to be a better way...
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Tyson (00:15):

Welcome to the social chameleon show where it's our goal to help you learn, grow and transform the person you wanna become today. I'm talking about Juliet Clark Juliet is a dynamic and sought after speaker in podcasts. There was spent the last 20 years helping authors, coaches, speakers, and small businesses all over the world. Build expert platforms, corporate companies, startups, and author speakers. Speaker in incubators worldwide have benefited from Juliette's unique and massively effective method of mastering lead generation and qualification for expert status. Julia created a platform building tool that assesses audience obstacles generates leads and qualifies and qualifies leads for businesses. This simple technology can be used on social media from the stage and at workshops to build email lists and curate and create conversations that build longterm relationships with potential clients, her podcast, promote profit, publish ups entrepreneurs, understand how to use great tools in the coaching and small business spaces.

Tyson (01:11):

This tool we talk about here, it's a, it's like a survey type of tool. I was just going to quit a bit of time on that. If you're interested in that, I do have a link in the show notes that Julia is like, like her bio is here. She's just a remarkable wealth of information she's really been in and around this industry. W mostly all of all of her career and she's really she asks good questions. She, and she's able to dig down into the obstacles and the things that's going on. And so even if you're not one of these maybe type of people you're not looking to write a book or, or something like that. I think especially for small businesses, especially in, in 2020 and beyond in this where the world's just a little different things are just a little bit different.

Tyson (01:53):

I think these things are a great way to generate leads like this is saying, but not only that, I just see the potential of having these real honest conversations with people and really people maybe are a little bit more disarmed and made able to say things I maybe they wouldn't say or ask in person, but in a survey type environment or their baby, a little bit more willing to be a little more forthcoming with some of the problems or challenges they're having. And, you know, especially, you know, like I like to talk with people I want to talk with them about this type of stuff is, you know, this first few, you know, 10, 20, 30, a hundred customers or clients or whatever it is you have is a really a great opportunity when you're new and in business is to talk to these people.

Tyson (02:38):

One-On-One, and it's an opportunity that it will be very hard later on as you, as you build and you grow to really have these one-on-one personal conversations. There's lots of stories from entrepreneurs. Like Airbnb has got a great story when they, they, they went to one of their host's house when they were a very small company and asked him questions and he had this big book of things and that really set the tone for the way they built that company. And they never would've thought of that. So take this opportunity, especially when you're small to reach out to people and have honest conversations anyway, without much more of me rambling, this interview does have some problems at the end here. The V the very, very end Juliet loses her internet connection. You know how that goes? It sucks. I think we did a great job of trying to clean that up at the end. I do jump back in and I I finished off some things that I had asked her via email. And so without further ado, let's listen to Juliet, Juliet, welcome to the social committee show. It's so great to be on. I had a joy on yours, and I hopefully we'll have a great time on mine as well.

Juliet (03:41):

That sounds great. Thank you so much for having me.

Tyson (03:44):

Thank you. So I wanna start somewhere. I really never started before, and I've never really had a conversation about this. I wanted to know how you killed your husband,

Juliet (03:54):

Who happens to be texting me right now. He's still alive. So I was going through a really ugly divorce. No one could really act like adults. And for the first time, in a very long time I had, cause the kids were going back and forth. I a lot of time on my hands and I always wanted to write a mystery novel and I was kind of sketching out, like, what is this going to be about? And something happened. I was like, you know, I'm just going to kill him in the book. I really want to like strangle him in person, but I'm blonde and, you know, blonde just don't look good in orange. So the felony orange isn't going to work for me or the prison. So just killed him in the book.

Tyson (04:39):

What made you want to write a book and then actually do it? I mean, a lot of people, we hear this all the time, at least, I mean, I seem to feel like I hear that all the time, Oh, I want to write a book. I'm going to do this. And I've been working on it. And most people don't go through with it. And if people do, they never publish it or whatever, and just kinda sit and draw, what, what made you kind of go through all of it?

Juliet (04:58):

So first of all, I always finished what I start, which is a blessing and a curse depending on, you know, what it is. And so I sat down and I started writing it and, and really, I think what propelled me to finish it was my mind was just occupied on like, how am I, what are my next moves? Who am I going to kill next? You know, if you've ever been through a divorce, you've probably gone through a lot of anger and you just want to kill everyone. So that's, that's what I did. But it was just sort of, I, I, the more cathartic I found it, the more it kept going type of thing. So maybe I don't have the traditional reasons for doing it, but I did. I always wanted to write a book. I wasn't, I'm an avid mystery reader, not so much now that I have a publishing company and I read all day, but back then I was an avid mystery reader and I've always wanted to write something like that. So that's kind of what propelled me, finished it. And I wrote five more after that.

Speaker 3 (06:00):

That's, that's amazing. That is definitely a skill is to, to, to finish things and have that fortitude to keep going through. What did you feel like it was maybe therapy in a way?

Juliet (06:09):

Oh yeah. Oh, definitely. Because if you, let me just say, even though they are horrible, I made a lot of money on some really bad mystery novels. I hate to say because I'm not a great, here's the deal. I'm a great storyteller. I'm not a great writer. You know, I was always that girl in high school, when the police pulled us over, I could find a way to like spit us, weave us out of it with my storytelling skills. And that storytelling, it doesn't mean have a liar just like spend the truth. Anyway, I think everybody does in high school, but it was very cathartic because it, as you go through all of my books, there's a, there's a little grain of truth in every one of them. My second book, gypsy, there was actually, my sister dragged me to a psychic in Newport beach.

Juliet (06:55):

And I was very intrigued by her asking me for $5,000 for Reiki. And so I started investigating her and found this really interesting story about these gypsies that were fighting over turf and orange County. And usually they, they, when they do these turf Wars, they're very contained within the gypsy community. This one actually spilled out and was in a Newsweek article. So I was fascinated by that. So there was a lot of stuff woven in there. My third book is actually sort of a childhood story about you know, how you, like, you always think of your grandparents in a weird, like, I dunno, like it was a weird story that I always believe that when I started writing it. So there was like a little grain of truth there. And then the two other books, actually that I think there were three, two or three, others were, were all like little things from my childhood that I'd never really explored, but it always kind of nickeled at me. So little grain of truth in everything.

Speaker 3 (07:57):

Interesting. So it seems like you had a great experience in the publishing world and writing books. You made some money maybe you to get some royalties on it. Why go do your own thing?

Juliet (08:10):

That's a great question. So right out of college, I worked in traditional publishing and when I wrote my first book, self publishing had just come out and I thought, well, wow, I know so much about traditional publishing. I should give this a try. I should really be able to rock it. And I signed on with one of the big ones and as they were selling me things and things that they were doing, I was thinking, you know, how much factor traditional publishing, how much they used to help the authors, nothing. These, this self publishing company was selling me was, was helping authors. It was a very non author centric business. And I think back then that was actually their game plan because you know, they, they, they wanted used to cut down self published off of authors a lot. So I think they were trying to keep that credibility with traditional, by not really serving authors in the self publishing industry and kind of making them second class citizens. So after my first book, I realized like a lot of this was going on and I decided, okay, self, I know enough about publishing, how hard can self publishing be. So I just started learning the ins and outs and applying what I knew. And, and I'd also worked at shy advertising. So I had realized that, you know, you needed platform building, you needed, you needed a lot of stuff to really be able to market yourself. And that's why I started my business.

Speaker 3 (09:34):

Yeah. I've heard that from, I can only think of one author and Tim Ferris, if you, if you're familiar with him, his third book, the four hour chef, he went with Amazon when they first started publishing and he was shunned by everybody, no bookstores would, they just boycotted his whole book. The bookstores wouldn't allow it. Walmart would allow it Costco wouldn't, nobody would allow him and his book flopped because he wasn't Amazon to publish it. And so I've heard that story before. And, you know, he had to, I think at the time when you did the four hour shift, the two books before the four hour work week for a body, I believe they were both New York times bestsellers. He, he became, he was pretty well known at that point. And yeah, he just got shut down just from somebody just at the time Amazon was new in the game. And so I've heard this before.

Juliet (10:19):

Yeah. And I didn't, I didn't really go through Amazon, but you know, there, I think, think of it this way. If you're an engineer and you bring me a book, you're going to have a lot of engineering language in that book. It's the same way with publishers. There was publisher language that, that most of us not in the industry do not understand. And one of the things about Amazon is you're not going, if you publish through them, you're not going to be in bookstores. There are distribution fees. There are, there are a lot of different things that are in the back end of all of this, that that you really don't know. One of them is Amazon doesn't have true worldwide distribution as as, as we know it in the publishing industry. So, you know, you need to ask really good questions and you need to know what you're talking about.

Speaker 3 (11:07):

Yeah, yeah, yeah. How do we, how do we know that? How do we find that out? W where where's some resources where some people kind of laying these things out, that's maybe, you know, it seems like if you're doing a self publishing thing, maybe you don't have the money or maybe you don't, whatever it is. How are you going to figure that out?

Juliet (11:24):

You're probably not. You're probably, you're gonna, you're gonna go to the people who charge more money and you know, they're going to tell you some of the ins and outs of what they do, but you probably won't understand what they're saying. And you'll just think, Oh, well, why? In fact, I had this happen a couple of weeks ago, someone came to me and I laid out what we do and gave her a price tag. And she's like, well, why will this company do it for a thousand? And the reality is the reason that company would do it for a thousand is because in their contract, it says that they get 30% of all of your online selling, which means if you're a coach. And the reason I knew about this contract is another coach brought me her book. She said, I don't understand this piece of the contract. And I said, how much do you make a year on online programs? And she said about 200,000. I said, what this contract says is they'll publish this book for a thousand, but you need to give them $80,000 of your online profit. So you really have to understand that contract and what they're doing. And a lot of times people won't take the time to like, get, they'll speak to you in publishing language. And it'll all sound really great, but it's not what you think it is.

Speaker 3 (12:38):

Yeah. That's. So when we were chatting before you talked about a scandal, can you walk us through that concept or that thing, a scam book? You, you, we talked about a scam book taking profits from the authors and stuff like that. I maybe that's the, maybe that's a note. I took down a scam book, but we were talking about Oh, there's get taken advantage of and the profits and all that stuff.

Juliet (13:02):

Yeah. I know what you're talking about. So when I, I'm not gonna mention who the company was, but when I published my first book, they came back to me and they tried to sell me. So you're talking about the accessory products that are scams. They tried to sell me well, we'll, we will send your book out to our 1 million subscribers on our email list. If you pay, if you pay $2,000. And when coming from that marketing world, I was looking at it and I was like, wait a minute. This isn't 1 million mystery enthusiasts, which I probably would have paid had it been that, that, but these people weren't my target market. They were people who wanted to publish books. So they were asking you to pay for basically an announcement. And all it was is every time they announced the book, they look like they're super, super busy and they're doing well, but it does nothing for the author.

Juliet (13:55):

I had another one I was working with a really lovely older woman on her second book. And she had published her first book with a, one of the big self-publishers. And I was actually sitting next to her. We were like working out details on the second book, which was a family, a very interesting family story about the American revolution and, and the British side of the story, not the American side of the story. Cause she was British. And this company calls her and they said, Hey, we've got some people, somebody read your book from Hollywood. They're super interested, you know, it's $20,000 to make it into a screenplay. You know, what, what do you think is this, is this worth doing? And so she got off the phone and she said, Oh my God, you know, she's super excited, you know, Hollywood, lots of money. And I said so how many copies of that book did you sell? And she said to people outside my family and I said, yeah. And she said 12. And I said, you know, just could be me being sour, sour grapes here. But I think you have a better chance of being struck by lightning than you do that. Some, one of those 12 people who read your book was a Hollywood producer.

Speaker 3 (15:13):

Yeah. Right. And it was so moving that, not only did it not sell, they want to make a movie out of it. And any of that.

Juliet (15:21):

Exactly. So, yeah, there's just a lot of stuff in, I'll be really honest. My first, at first self publisher, they still call me, Hey, let's do some marketing on players. And I'm like, you, you do know that you don't have the rights to that anymore. Like I re published it under my own name. They didn't even know like, you don't even own the book. No. I'm not going to pay for marketing.

Speaker 3 (15:49):

Yeah. You know, that's that email list, big number. I hear that so many from some tough times from clients over they're like, Oh, well, you know this old, they said, you got to get this many people on the list and you got to do this. And, and that's really it seems to be a bit of a, I guess, a scam in a way too. It's like, Oh, I've got this a hundred thousand person listen. And if most times that people really kinda took a second to think about it and, and really kind of got down to it. Most times these lists are just dead. Nobody reads them. Nobody opens them. The click-through rates are atrocious, atrocious. The, you know, the, the amount of sales that they get from this are next to nothing, but they sell you on this idea of, I've got this a hundred dollars, half a million million subscriber list. And it's really I don't know how many times I've heard it. Clients are, you know, autistic this new course, this guy's going to teach me how to do this. He's got this, you know, half a million subscriber list. And it's really just a horrible scam.

Juliet (16:39):

Yeah, no, it really is. And I'll tell you, in 2019, I went through and I deleted 5,000 people from my list. And I was down to about, I want to say I had about 600 people, but if anybody hadn't opened the last 30 days, I deleted them. I have a really high open rate and people who are very engaged than a big list.

Speaker 3 (17:00):

Yeah. I tell my clients all the time. And I do that personally. If somebody has an open your email in the past three to six months, delete them, get up, get rid of them, get them off your list. Having this big number doesn't mean a thing. If they're not opening these emails,

Juliet (17:11):

I'll tell you a little secret. One of my friends who regularly makes the USA today bestseller list with her books. And I believe she just became a New York times bestseller. She actually has a system in order to make those big lists. She has to have readers, not only on Amazon, but at another book source as well, book buying source. So she actually deletes automatically delete you if you haven't opened in 30 days. And she knows where everybody in her list reads. So if she launches, I think she told me she wants, she has a list of about 25,000 people. She can, she can pretty much guarantee that she can hit the numbers because the list is current. They're waiting for her next book. And she knows she has at least two reading sources.

Speaker 3 (17:56):

Yeah, no, I've heard that. From Ryan holiday, he had a reading recommendation list for years and years and years before he ever published a book. And then when he did publish a book, he sent it off to his list and he's basically a best seller from his email list. Yeah. Yeah. And that's the thing.

Juliet (18:11):

I just did that with mine. My, I use my email list and I'm trying to think, I think one other person sent out the emails as well and hit the best seller.

Speaker 3 (18:21):

Yeah, absolutely. I've heard, I forgot we can gain these bestseller lists. What's what does truth to that? You can kind of pay yourself onto the,

Juliet (18:28):

You can, you can, so here's the deal. You can gain the Amazon bestseller list. No problem. You're not going to be able to gain a USA today, wall street journal or a New York times. In fact, many people have tried to gain the New York times. One of the things that's happened in this industry over the years is there's always that, you know, cheater, cheater, Peter eaters. I used to tell my kids, there's always somebody out there who's found a way to cheat the list and, and many of the new rules and restrictions that come up are because these people have cheated. So I'll give you an example. Back when I published my first book people were making up fake email addresses and buying or writing reviews and doing things like that. So they shut that down. People were doing like the KDP program and you can't publish any place else.

Juliet (19:24):

KTP has like these big feelers and it's Amazon. So, you know, they're everywhere. It's, it's surveillance capitalism at this point. So they know when you're published someplace else and they'll take you down. Another thing that happened is people went over to fiverr.com and they were buying reviews. So I think they actually sued Fiverr or something happened there. Then there was this guy who shall remain nameless, who used to gather people with books down in San Diego and he would convert them to Kindle and they would, they would put them on at 99 cents and they would all sit and write reviews. Now here's the problem with that. If you buy a Kindle book, they know exactly how far you've read and they know how fast you're reading. So you can't write a review. You can't just buy it and write a review anymore. So every single rule that has come about has pretty much come about because people have got caught cheating the system.

Speaker 3 (20:18):

I think I've also heard something about the Kindle as well. If you don't read a certain percentage of the book that the author doesn't get paid,

Juliet (20:25):

I've never heard to get paid. I've never heard that in it. Now, now that might be part of the lending library because you do get paid a very small, and I'm not sure on this, but sometimes you can lend books and you get paid a very, very small percentage on if you do that. But I haven't heard that about not paid. If somebody purchases your book, you should get paid. Yeah.

Tyson (20:50):

I mean, maybe that's the Kindle unlimited or something like that, where if they don't read, I think it's 20 or 30%, then they just count that as the person who can read the book. So you're just not getting your warranty or whatever it is. Okay. Interesting. Yeah. I don't know, like you can't believe everything you read on the internet, so it's, that's kind of tough.

Juliet (21:07):

In fact, you couldn't believe nothing. You read on the internet.

Tyson (21:10):

Only most people understood that. So now I know we were chatting as well. You talked about this this book being pitched slapped. Can, do you remember this? Can we go through this? That is actually the name of my black. Yes. Yeah.

Juliet (21:26):

Yes. So I wrote this book. One of the things that I've noticed from the last couple of years is that people will show up at these big events and we sit around in circles and we, you know, work on our pitch, you know, that, that one minute pitch or whatever it is, and then we're going around. And when we meet people, we do what I call pitch slapping, which is, I don't really know you Tyson, but I'm going to throw this pitch at you in hopes that maybe you're my ideal audience. And then I'm going to expect you to buy without getting to know you. So that's sort of what I call pitch slept. When you walk away from a conversation with somebody you don't really know, and they've kind of slimed their business all over you. So I've become really I think for the most part in at least the last year, I would say two years, we've become very click averse in marketing.

Juliet (22:22):

We know the game. If we really give you our real email address, you will slime us with, with spam. You know, if I give you whatever it is I give you, if it, if it's not an even exchange, then I'm really not going to feel good about it. And that's another thing that's part of pitch. Slopped is we've had this paradigm for years with marketing where we've said, okay, I'm going to give you a lead magnet. And it's a quote piece of my genius, and you're supposed to be really excited about it. And you're going to give me your email address, and then I'm going to slam you with spam. I liked that word sign today. Don't I I'm going to spam you to death. And then we're going to pretend that's a relationship, even though you never opened my emails, you never read the lead magnet.

Juliet (23:07):

So we've had this like imaginary, just like with the list, we've had this imaginary relationship going on with people. And what's really, really crazy about it is we've written drip campaigns because we expect these people that we just did this to like by, by the seventh email. Right? Yeah. So, yeah. So like with how it was imaginary, what I call imaginary marketing going on. What I talk about in pitch slapped is having the quiz and we have a proprietary quiz that we use as a lead magnet where there's really something in it for the person who's taking the quiz. They're getting some valuable information. You're getting research. You're finding out if you have a valid lead, if it's, you ha you're making you putting a lead in place, but it wasn't a qualified lead. So there's, there's an even a true even exchange of of information going on here instead of a one-sided.

Juliet (24:02):

Yeah. My email list is a hundred thousand people who don't open and yeah, so I that's, that's what that's, what I talk about in pitch slap is why the quiz we use is so valuable why it is. So why it's what I call a look at you marketing. Cause I think a lot of what we've seen in the marketplace is what I call it. Look, look at you marketing or look at me, marketing where, you know, it's the videos. Look at my beautiful house. Look at my beautiful car. Look at my beautiful wife. The reality is it's not really his house. It's not really his card. His wife left him five years ago cause he was broke. And then there's that other where, you know, it's, it's all about me. I'm the guru. I'm so fabulous. Follow me. I've done this stuff and it's never about service and really allowing those people to understand, you know, where their skill set is at and, and what success looks like and why they're not reaching it. So it's really it's really about serving, not selling.

Speaker 3 (25:01):

Yeah, no, that is so true. And it, it's hard because these people you're talking about, that's what they want you to think they're doing. But back to you feel slimy and you have that feeling when you are pitch slap. And, and personally, if I get that from you, I will never ever, ever do business with you again, period. The end of that, I mean, even if I love your product I, I don't care. I'm done. I just can't. I can't trust you. I can't, we can't build a relation. We can't is a good example. He's a local local dairy company here. And I used to go to the, you know a smaller grocery store and they'd have their product. They know the local stuff, you know, sometimes if it makes sense, I try to buy local thing. And then I seen them at the farmer's market one day and their PI at the farmer's market direct to consumer their prices were $2 or more. On top of what I would get at a normal grocery store, I was like, people are coming out here and you're gouging them when I can go to the local store and buy it for cheaper. You're making more money in our transaction. From that point on, I will not buy anything. They make you you've just ruined our relationship and they made some great stuff and I'm like, dang, Oh, well too bad. You know, it's just that, like you said, you feel slimy and you get that feeling and it's tough. Yeah.

Juliet (26:21):

I had a client a while back text me and she said, Hey, do you have time to talk real quick? And I got on the phone with her and she was in tears. She was like, she said, she was interested in something she saw on the internet. She set an appointment with the guy was like a 20 minute appointment. She said, he didn't listen to me. He didn't ask what my problem was. He just hard sell. And when I said, no, he got mad. And you know, not only did it not engender trust, she was like, she would never do anything with them now because they didn't listen. Part of being part of being of service is really listening and not just selling.

Tyson (26:59):

So how did you, how did you come to this? How did you have this aha moment of, of this is something you want to talk about? And even beyond that, write a book about it.

Juliet (27:08):

So I back in 2016, I found a quiz program and I really felt like it's serve authors very, very well. If we could use it in the right way. And it's not even my software, it belongs to someone else who created the software. So I started using it for my own stuff and, and using it to sell from the stage. And it really gave me a lot of insight when I saw the results. First of all, these people went into my list. They had the opportunity to set an appointment if they wanted to. And I'll, I'll go back and explain this in a minute. But what I got from it was a lot of market research, like what do people want and what I thought they wanted wasn't necessarily what they were telling me they wanted. So I created this done for you program and I sold it from a stage in San Diego and I had over 80 people buy it.

Juliet (28:04):

And I noticed that first of all, half of the people didn't didn't even open it. Like they never, ever even opened it after they bought it. And so about three months in, I picked up the phone and I called the people who did open it, who worked it. And I said, Hey, can you give me some feedback on this? And their feedback was, this would have been a really great program if you had done it with us. And those ones are kind of things. I was like that feedback. I literally sold those people. Most of those people into a different program where I worked with them. I credited them back for that done for you when I worked with them. But I thought this is the kind of staff where people are putting products out there. They're not validating them. What if they could validate them first, number one and number two, what if they could find out how these people really wanted it optimally delivered and in a whole bunch of other information by actually talking to them.

Juliet (28:58):

So when we put together the quizzes, now we take the success principles of what you teach. We put it into categories. We put them into statements where the person who taking it, who's taking it, evaluates themselves on a scale of one to 10, one being, I'm not doing this 10 being I'm doing this really well. What happens is those people get their results and they can see obvious gaps in, in what's what it's going to take to be successful. So they're getting something out of it. You, as the entrepreneur are seeing these patterns inside this over and over and over, like, I can tell you everybody who answers on funnels like they fail. So that gives me the opportunity to now present content, maybe a program around this. And I know that people want and need it. Then we took it a step further with the software.

Juliet (29:49):

One of the really great things about this software is it has a section that we call commitment, where you answer those statements about, are you a hundred percent committed to solving the problem I, that this entrepreneur solves? Are you willing to invest in? Would you set an appointment if you qualify? And there are three different auto responders in the background. So anybody who says, yes, I want to solve the problem. I'm willing to invest. And I would love an appointment. Those people are going to get that email coming out of there with your calendar link. Those are people you want to talk to the people that are sort of in the mid range there, they may be hearing you for the first time. And they're like, Oh my God, I love what Tyson just said, but I don't really know him. Those are your nurture people.

Juliet (30:33):

And, and the people that you want to start conversations with as well. And this is not click. This is set an appointment, have a conversation, feedback, talk, build a relationship. And then 80% of Annie Annie room, those are your non-action takers. Put them in your list, make them part of your a hundred thousand, the total I've never open your email, give them something free. Now you are actually talking to people. So that's what we did with it was, I was tired of clicks because clicks don't work. They're not relationships. And I want to just start talking to people. And that's what we do to build audiences for our authors. And we have a ton of speakers using it now, too.

Speaker 3 (31:13):

Yeah. I went over to yours and I'm not trying to be an author, but I wanted to see what you're talking about. And I went through it and I love that. The, the, what is it? Zero through three, there was a thing. And four to six, there was a thing. And, and I just went through and I'm like, you're, you're sitting here. You got it. Well, you know, four, six, seven, and you really got to come up and I'm looking at this as I'm going through it. And I'm like, Oh, I, I can easily just, I didn't even finish it. Cause I didn't want to send anything to you. But I was like, I can easily see where my gaps are. And I'm like four, four, six, seven. I'm like, Oh. Okay. But I liked that. It was very, it made me think. And also I'm committed to this now.

Speaker 3 (31:50):

So I'm thinking about this. And I'm like, and then, you know, even just that, I feel like we were building a relationship a little bit like, Oh, you know what? I'm struggling with. You're seeing that these questions are obviously things. Probably people are struggling with things that your probably designed to help me with, or at least point me in the right direction. And then at the end it was great. It was like, it was like zero 10. You're committed or you're not. And I'm like, Oh, obviously I don't want it. But, and then, you know, it's very clear. It's like, it's not just like a looky-loo kind of thing. Like, well maybe all, let me just go this. And I'll, it'll wind up in my downloads folder. Maybe one day I'll read something that I'll never really well. It was like, are you committed or not? If you're not, you know, then congratulations, this has been fun. Have a great day. We're not for you kind of feel, I liked that. It was very, I very interesting. I really do like that.

Juliet (32:32):

Well, thank you because here are the things we, when we put that together, number one, if somebody wishy washy, you don't want to work with them plain and simple. They're not going to show up. And they're probably the same type of person who will say, you know what? I didn't really have much success in that program because Tyson did this or Tyson did that. And the truth is they probably wouldn't show up. The second part is stop talking to broke people. That's what just kills me is yeah. Is when I spend all day talking to broke people who, you know, they want, they want advice. They don't, they're not interested in your product. They know they can't afford it back in the days when we used to get, do webinars. If you remember like 2016, I would send out the, do you hate me email at the end?

Juliet (33:19):

And people would give me these sob stories. Well, I didn't have any money. I'm just going from webinars to webinar. And I'm going to learn how to do this on my own. Which if you've ever worked with webinar expert, you give just enough value, but you don't tell them how to do it. And I just be like, Oh my gosh. And then there were other people who would say, yeah, I'm, I'm broke. You know, we sell this program for 10 bucks now. So you know, it was just stuff like that. Like quit talking to broke people.

Speaker 3 (33:49):

Absolutely. And this is something that I think we talked about at your show, as well as we spend so much effort talking to people that are not interested are not our ideal clients. And we really neglect that 20% that are producing that are doing these things. I I'm reading this book now. Somebody else come on my podcast. And so to talk about it's 80, 20 principle and they, they want to help the 80%. And, and I'm reading this book and I'm like, why are you wasting your time on the 80%? I don't get it. I want to get on the podcast because I want to, like, I want to hammer this home. I say, this book is crap. I think you should be talking to the 20%. And we, I don't know how many clients I have that it's like, well, but what about these people? Those people. They don't want anything to do with you. Like leave them alone, delete them over, email it, stop talking to them. You're wasting hours and hours of your day. And I was like, what about those 12 people that respond to this? Have you talked to them? No. Why? That's a hundred grand. You probably left on the table. You're worrying about these other people. These 12 guys are interested in what you're doing. You haven't communicated with you. Haven't followed up. What are you doing? And it's a really a big problem

Juliet (34:54):

Here. Here's a sales tip for all of you guys. If you have to convince somebody to buy your product, you've already lost. Yeah. They have to come to the conversation, really excited. And I think that's one of the things the quiz provides is when people come to that call, when they book it and they come to the call they really, they know they need you. Like, let's talk about this. Let's talk about, and you can use those results as a guideline. And that's how it's different than so many other quizzes, because the other quizzes out there, this is the only platform I know that has the categories and the statements together. So you can see those gaps. The other ones, it's like a question and yes or no, from a neuro-marketing standpoint, once you've moved on to that next page, you've disconnected. So when you get your results are kind of disjointed, you don't really understand.

Juliet (35:40):

And that's because it was something where the entrepreneur wanted you to click a link and book an appointment, and then you talk, right? So you really have a lot of feedback. One of the things that happened in 2017, I think it was when we first had the quiz program and we were teaching people how to do it and setting them up. Then following year, we had to add enrollment conversations into our group program. And that was because for the very first time, some of these people were actually getting leads and talking to people and they realized they didn't know how to close. They had no idea how to close. So we had to add that into the program because people are coming back and they're like, yes, I talked to 10 people and none of them bought. And it's like, yeah, some stuff was going on.

Speaker 3 (36:28):

That's a good problem to have. Yeah. Would you mind sharing the name of this company? Is it possible which company, this Queens, people, maybe people are interested in adding it to their services.

Juliet (36:38):

I actually, I actually don't share it because we, we only, we, you see what's happened to survey monkey, things like that. We really want people to set this up and have it work with integrity. So

Speaker 3 (36:50):

That's something they can do with you. I'm sorry. Wait, there's something they could do with you if they are really interested. Yeah.

Juliet (36:56):

That's what, that's what we do. Cause we have a process where we consult, we look through the product and we help you set it up. So you get optimal answers. Okay.

Speaker 3 (37:04):

So I'll, I'll, I'll leave some information to link to you to get a hold of you too. Okay. All right. Perfect. That sounds great. I wasn't sure if that's what I wanted to ask. I didn't want to just I, I, I noticed when I was, like I said, I was going through this, the things that were glaring to me are the things I'm struggling with. What, what, what is your experience with that? And how have you guys maybe tweak this or add to this? Maybe you just felt some type of course in then what, what is, what is something along those lines for you guys with that?

Juliet (37:38):

You mean as far as what we have on the quiz

Speaker 3 (37:41):

With the quiz? Yeah. That's to me, the glaring thing was my struggles. Yeah. So 

Juliet (37:48):

It's actually changed my model. I had a group program that we w what we did is we had one-on-ones, we built the quiz, you went out and used it. And we had a lot of in the, in the group program, we met weekly and we talked about marketing and, you know what marketing's really like relationship wise versus clicks. And we, we kind of went through funnels and all that, and I realized that people were still coming back and they were asking me the same questions, even though they'd been like on the call or they'd missed the call. So now we have we, we have the quiz as a build for you. So we build it, we build it with you. We tell you how to go out and use it. And then most of our other services are just one-on-one because it, you know, people need to learn specific areas.

Juliet (38:36):

That's what was really hard about having the group program is some people were good at enrollment. Some people were good at marketing, so, you know, so it was kind of all over the place. So now we really have a model that is more one-on-one teaching for that thing, that piece of it, that you really need to know. So we build your first quiz, we do the consulting, and then we add on if there's, if you come back and say, well, I need to know how to do this. We do more of a one-on-one. I just felt like it was more effective because I was, I was doing the group teach, and then they were coming back for one-on-one anyway.

Speaker 3 (39:09):

Yeah. And that's good. That's probably sounds like you'd get a better success rate. Is that accurate? Is that true?

Juliet (39:15):

Yeah. And I'm really big on results because I feel there's so many coaches out there who just sell and they don't really care about your results. And I'm, I'm pretty invested. It's the same with the publishing company, most publishing companies. Self-Publishing, if you bring them your book, they will convert it into the right format. They'll publish it, but there's really no consulting in between. We spend a good three to four months with our clients, making sure we have endorsements, making sure that, you know, we have testimonials of a good forward with the recognizable name. So we spend a lot of time before that book ever goes into manuscript, into the formatting. And then for many of our people, they buy a bestseller and a free shipping book funnel. So now we're teaching them, okay, this is what we're doing. We're putting together the campaign, who are your partners. I'm sending them out to do things. And then the free shipping book funnel is the followup, because most people never sell another book after they launched. So we sort of have that. We take them from the quiz, which is build your audience into publishing into the bestseller campaign. And then from there integrating that free book back into getting them back into your products.

Speaker 3 (40:31):

Yeah. As well, I was reading on your site you really hammered kind of in the beginning of your, of your, of your website, of building your audience, being this person before even thought, talk about, even run a, write a book is building this authority and becoming somebody that made people even want to read a book about.

Juliet (40:46):

Yeah. There's a lot of I could tell, I thought about this a lot, a lot of people out there who are writing a book to become an expert. And that's what we got when we first started this business was we would ask people, why did you write the book? And they'd say, Oh, I went to somebody, you know, some gurus event. And I shared that my products and services weren't selling and they said, Oh, that's cause you need a book to be an expert. And coming from marketing, I would just sit there and go, no, it's probably just going to be another field product. So we need to go back and figure out what's going on back here and build an audience. And so that's why I talk about on the site is if you build that audience first, you have a hungry crowd for that book and, and going into those other products and services. So, you know, your book should be a loss leader, not to make you an expert.

Speaker 3 (41:40):

Yeah. So something I've been hearing for the past few years, you know, I write a book. So it's your, it's your new business card? I really don't like that philosophy either. Yeah. Yeah. It just, I don't know how many times I get sent books for free and it's just, it's just crap. I just, don't the trash, it's this, you just wrote this as a business card. I don't want to read it. It's a waste of my time. I already have some books. I'll never read

Juliet (42:02):

At this point, Tyler, I've heard people say, Oh, when you go into a job interview and you know, when the guys say, Oh, well I wrote the book on this. If I were the employee, I would think what a. Sorry.

Speaker 3 (42:16):

Yeah. Yeah. So I'd say that it's got to come off. I've never been in a job interview like that, but that's going to be horrible. Like, so you're saying there's nothing to learn here and there's no growth. You've already wrote the book. There's no new information. We can't advance this idea any further. I have a friend well he does something in electricity or something like that. And he's like, Oh, we know everything we possibly can already. I'll say that does not sound possible. Like in 20, I think it was 28 to 2019. He's like, we already know everything we can know. I was like, I bet you, I can think of some things you guys have no clue about. He's worked for some power company proper and whatever. It's like a PhD kind of guy. And it's like, you really think you've already solved all the world's problems in electricity. There's no way like, you're, you've already limited yourself in such a capacity. Yeah.

Juliet (43:03):

There's one thing you can write a book and understand. And then this is actually one of my one of my pet peeves for people who come into marketing is that they'll try to save money and they'll say, okay, I'm going to read books and figure this out. Marketing changes about every nine to 12 months with technology. So if you're reading a book from 2017 and 2020 chances are, you're not going to have the latest and greatest, like it's an industry that's always growing. And I feel like out there right now, every industry is growing and changing. Not just because of COVID but technology. So I don't think you can, you can write a book, but know that it's probably going to have a limited shelf life.

Speaker 3 (43:44):

Even I see a lot of especially in the marketing space a lot of, you know, these guys in the background, they're doing something they're, they, they find this trick and then they burned it out and then they sell a course on it. And it's everybody's Oh my God, this is the latest thing. And, but everybody's buying into this and then nobody gets any results because you've burned the bridge, right? You've the Google's or the whatever they've already caught onto this. And they stopped it from happening. But you're selling the course because you can show what you did for the past six months and show how it worked great. But it's not going to work for anybody else because the bridge has already burned.

Juliet (44:13):

Right? No, I think that's absolutely true. Absolutely true.

Speaker 3 (44:17):

So what in your industry, what are the maybe one or two things people are getting wrong?

Juliet (44:25):

One of the things is writing the book. You should definitely invest in a writing of some sort because if you don't, you're probably going to end up writing what I call a bar for block. And it's, it's, you know, too much of your story and not enough valuable information. So I, I, the, the books that we get that are, the people are working with a writing coach tend to be much, much better sellers than people who write books on their own. So that I think that would be the first thing. The second thing is don't expect your book to make you a bunch of money. You're never going to buy the Island next, next to Richard Branson's with your book. A book should be considered a loss leader. I low barrier product to get people into the bigger step. And when I say that that's in combination with marketing, that brings people to you and starts relationship. It's not you putting links to everything you have in your book and expecting people to click and buy. So look at it as that, you know, that's why we have those frequent free shipping book funnels. Here's the book for free. You pay for shipping. And by the way, for this one time only, you'll see this program for 47 or $97. And it's an intro to you for those people who don't know you.

Speaker 3 (45:51):

Yeah. I like those. I've seen a bunch of those programs that they're, they're, they're really fun. I do like those. What is what one platform people are under utilizing?

Juliet (46:00):

The reason I say LinkedIn is because if you're a professional, no matter what profession you're in, first of all, LinkedIn has a higher income earner rates. So I think the average person who's on LinkedIn is 75,000 above. They can afford your products. Secondly you know, we have built up such a surveillance capital and all of those others that a lot of people are jumping off of it. They're not as they're tired of Facebook groups, they're tired of all the political stuff on Facebook. You know, it's just, I think that, that a lot of people, especially with COVID are jumping over to LinkedIn. I know I've added like 7,500 new people so far this year.

Speaker 3 (46:43):

Yeah. I've noticed that as well on LinkedIn has been, it's becoming hot. Yeah.

Juliet (46:47):

And I feel good about myself at the end of the day. Cause I'm not over on Facebook getting political meme to death. I'm not on I gave up Twitter after the 2016 election. I think, I think it's just become really toxic and LinkedIn doesn't seem to have all of that going on.

Speaker 3 (47:05):

Yeah. I advise people as well to not make Facebook groups. I, to me, that's where you, if you want to make a base group, that's where you just go to, let everybody die and let you don't care about what's happening there. You don't want to engage with them. You just let it go to the die. That's what I that's, when I say I don't engage in Facebook groups, it's very, very rare that myself, so

Juliet (47:24):

I'll be really honest in the last I had a show on Facebook with Tracy and we stopped at, at the end of June. Cause we're like election coming up. I don't want to be on Facebook. I don't want to get thrown off for something stupid. Cause they were already like, and it was me, it wasn't Tracy. They would shut, shut me down for 30 days going live. They were doing all sorts of funky stuff because I had a group that was a little political and so we shut it down and I literally go on now with hoot suite. Other than that, I'm rarely on Facebook. It's just putting my business stuff up there.

Speaker 3 (47:59):

Yes. As I, yeah. I've been, I've been banned from Facebook several times. I don't even any of you try to ask them why they don't, they don't care.

Juliet (48:05):

They don't tell you I lost 4,800 people three months ago. They just deleted me one day.

Speaker 3 (48:11):

Yeah. Yeah. And, and that's like, you know, the thing we got to realize is we're building our livelihoods on somebody else's land and they, anytime they can kick you off

Juliet (48:21):

That that is so true. But it's even bigger than that. If you have you watched the social dilemma Netflix? I did. I just watched. Okay. So look at what they're talking about there with the surveillance capitalism and how much they have stolen of our lives, building these personas. And then there was a book they recommended on there called the age of surveillance capitalism. And if you read that book, you're just blown away by how, how much they have invaded our privacy and how purposeful it has been because many of those group leaders are libertarians. And I mean, I'm a libertarian, I don't want the government involved anything, any in any part of our lives. Right. But from a standpoint of they are creating technology so fast that they're doing it on purpose to avoid laws, being written, to protect the rest of us.

Speaker 3 (49:12):

Yeah. And then they try to put themselves in this gray area where we're not responsible for the content people put on here. Yeah. It is. I mean, I've been, I've been kind of harping on this for, for years now and people sitting, I was crazy. And then I had my walk, my wife watched a movie, the movie with me because I knew all that stuff. And I've been talking to them about it for ever. And she's like, Oh, I don't think, do you believe me now? Like it, it it's, it's, it's tough.

Juliet (49:35):

I, I hate to be a conspiracy theorist, but the reason I got thrown off Facebook was I shared a bit shoot video that took that even a step further than our governments involved. And that's when I got thrown off.

Speaker 3 (49:48):

Yeah. Th that's the thing they don't want you. And especially now with, I think if, if people have woken up to this before COVID really post COVID during COVID, you really seen, they only wanted to share what they thought was correct information. I'm not disputing anything that whatever, but it's always up to YouTube. It's up to Facebook and Instagram, what they thought you could share. You know, I have, I have a friend, he reposted something to CDC posted. They shut him down because they didn't want that information out there. And it's like, well, that wasn't authority. You guys say we should be listening to and re posted their content.

Tyson (50:28):

And I got canceled. So, you know, it's, that's, what's happening a lot and they're really able to craft the conversation in whatever way they feel like it for each and every one of us.

Juliet (50:41):

I agree. So back to, I, I've never been like that tin, foil hat where, but the social social media companies are a threat to our democracy. They really are.

Tyson (50:52):

And that the Y in that movie, social dilemma, the thing that to me was the, the biggest thing of the whole thing was each one of those CEOs at the end says, I don't even let my own kids on here, have UDL take that seriously, that they don't even let their own family and their own children on there. You really should be evaluating your time on there and what you're allowing your children to do. Interesting around. Sorry about that. At the end. I hope it wasn't too hard to understand. Like I said, we did our best to clean that up as much as we know how, and I think as, as possible if you are looking for that tool that we talk about for the quizzes head over to lead logic, quiz.com, don't worry about it. If you, if you're driving or, you know, I'll walk in or something like that, the link is in the show notes, head over to the social security and.show.

Tyson (51:42):

Look for Juliette's episode, you can search it whatever you need to do. And you can easily link over to that and whatever other information we have for her and whatnot, we will we'll be there for you guys to get in contact with her. If you're interested in some of these tools, techniques, or if you're looking to employ her services or, you know, give a chat with her. And then as you guys like to know challenges, I think is one of the best ways where we can implement the things that we've learned or something we've talked about us a great way to take this into a practice. Maybe you just try it for typically we do a week here but maybe try for a week, a month, two weeks, something like that, just give a shot. It doesn't work for you to scrape.

Tyson (52:20):

So anyhow Juliette's challenge is to start connecting with people on LinkedIn and have conversations I'd like to add to that. From, from my perspective, my point of view nothing that I think Juliet may, may or may not be saying, but when you have these conversations on LinkedIn, what really typically happens, and I know there's training out there and I get it a ton, I've got a lot, a lot of connection on LinkedIn and you get these people they're just looking to try and sell you something, or cannibalize your time somehow, by getting on these quick 15 minute meetings. And boy just, I, that just, you know, some, somebody you never met for the most part that they don't want to jump on a 15 minute call from me. They don't want to take away from your day. So stop.

Tyson (53:08):

And as people have a hard time saying no, so you want them getting all of these meetings because that, so listen, first of all, if you hate these 15 minute meetings, like I do say no, there's lots of great ways of saying no. Tim Ferriss has got a great one. I love. And I do typically use a lot. I'm thinking a meeting vacation. I'm not doing any meetings right now. I'm not doing any meetings for us a quarter. I'm not doing anything for the rest of the year, whatever it is you want to do, if it kind of softens the blow a little bit, people kind of understand a little bit or whatever. And secondly, don't ask these people, things that are easily. Google-Able the one thing that drives me up the walls is, Oh, so what do you do? Well, first of all, you're on LinkedIn.

Tyson (53:42):

Secondly, we've connected and thirdly, it can easily just click on my name and you can see everything that I've done in my life. Don't don't, don't ask those questions stop. You you're really, I guess what I do, I will never talk to you. I mean, sometimes I'll block you. I may even remove you as a connection and block you. So don't, don't abuse. These privileges, LinkedIn is still one of those platforms and places where you can get a hold of, and you can have a conversation with somebody in a high up position, maybe even a little famous, maybe a leader in your industry or something. And don't abuse this privilege by asking them dumb questions. You could easily Google have a thoughtful conversation, come to these people with a problem, say, Hey, you know Mr. Cuban you know, I've done, I've done X, Y, Z.

Tyson (54:27):

These are the things that have gone. I, I I've read your stuff. I read a bunch of things. I've tried a bunch of things I'm really up against a wall. And I think you're a great person that has experienced that can help me with this problem. If you could, that's great. If not, don't worry about it. I know you're busy. It's not a big deal. If you get back to me and just leave it, like let these people off the hook a little don't think, you know, please get back to me in three days later. Why haven't you got back to me? Why haven't you emailed me back? Like, please, please just stop this. Have good honest conversations with people. And stop trying to sell people stuff and stop trying to have this fake thing. Well, I'm not trying to sell you anything, but if I get you on a call and start talking about my products and your services and about me, listen, man, listen to these people, find out what their problems are, find out what they're struggling with.

Tyson (55:07):

And if you've got a solution that you don't even sell, or you don't even know, or you want to pass this off to somebody, listen, I can't help you at all. But I know a guy I know a company on that's when you really have an opportunity to build a deep connection with people. I, you know, Juliet may or may not have said this, but this is what I want to add onto this. These, the things that I struggle with. And I, I, I see problems within it and, and, and things there. So anyway, I hope you guys really enjoy this interview. If you like, what we have going on. If you know somebody that could use this information, maybe her services, not that I'm trying to sell her services, but please she has people that can spread the word, have a conversation.

Tyson (55:45):

People maybe do some type of, you know, watch party or something like that, whatever. With a couple of friends and you guys can have great conversations. I hope to spark some ideas for taking your businesses in different directions. A lot of people, I, I see, you know, we're just, we're just so down. I'm all the CA can't do anything. This drives me bananas. There's so much opportunity. Some of the biggest companies in the world that ever work came out of crisis came out of these hard times. There's opportunities, everywhere. People are struggling with things, and that's why you may hear or feel that there's nothing I can do. Well. If you find out something and a solution for that, you, you might have a business. You might have a new product. You might have a new revenue stream. You can add to your business, whatever it is. So get together with your crew, get together people and talk about this, share this stuff and be like, what we've got going on. You want to connect with us please visit the social community. Our show, Facebook, Instagram, Twitter, if you like a video version had had a the YouTube channel. Don't forget if you're, if you're new here, subscribe on the podcast platforms and all that other stuff for past episodes and links to everything we talk about today and, and forever on you guys can visit the social community in.show.

Speaker 4 (56:55):

Have a great year, have a great time. And we'll see you guys keep learning, growing, and transforming to people you want to become.

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