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Book Review:

Professor of Neuroscience and Psychology
Matthew Walker is a professor of neuroscience and psychology at UC Berkeley, the Director of its Sleep and Neuroimaging Lab, and a former professor of psychiatry at Harvard University. He has published over 100 scientific studies and has appeared on 60 Minutes, Nova, BBC News, and NPR’s Science Friday.
Dr. Walker

Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams

Dr. Walker has made abundantly clear that sleep is one of the most important but least understood aspects of our life. Until very recently, science had no answer to the question of why we sleep, or what good it served, or why we suffer such devastating health consequences when it is absent. Compared to the other basic drives in life—eating, drinking, and reproducing—the purpose of sleep remains more elusive. Within the brain, sleep enriches a diversity of functions, including our ability to learn, memorize, and make logical decisions. It recalibrates our emotions, restocks our immune system, fine-tunes our metabolism, and regulates our appetite. Dreaming creates a virtual reality space in which the brain melds past and present knowledge, inspiring creativity. In this “compelling and utterly convincing” (The Sunday Times) book, preeminent neuroscientist and sleep expert Matthew Walker provides a revolutionary exploration of sleep, examining how it affects every aspect of our physical and mental well-being. Charting the most cutting-edge scientific breakthroughs, and marshaling his decades of research and clinical practice, Walker explains how we can harness sleep to improve learning, mood, and energy levels, regulate hormones, prevent cancer, Alzheimer’s and diabetes, slow the effects of aging, and increase longevity. He also provides actionable steps towards getting a better night’s sleep every night.

Things We Talked About In The Episode

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The Drive Podcast

Dr. Walker

Professor

Dr. Walker earned his degree in neuroscience from Nottingham University, UK, and his Ph.D. in neurophysiology from the Medical Research Council, London, UK. He subsequently became a Professor of Psychiatry at Harvard Medical School, USA. 

Currently, he is Professor of Neuroscience and Psychology at the University of California, Berkeley, USA. He is also the founder and director of the Center for Human Sleep Science

Dr. Walker’s research examines the impact of sleep on human health and disease. He has received numerous funding awards from the National Science Foundation and the National Institutes of Health, and is a Kavli Fellow of theNational Academy of Sciences

His research examines the impact of sleep on human brain function in healthy and disease populations. To date, he has published over 100 scientific research studies

*Info From Sleep Diplomat

Dr. Walker

Author

Dr. Walker is the author of the International Bestseller, Why We Sleep. It has a singular goal: to reunite humanity with sleep.

The book provides a complete description of, and prescription for, sleep. It answers critical questions about sleep: how do caffeine and alcohol affect sleep? What really happens during dreaming? Why do our sleep patterns change across a lifetime? How do common sleep pills affect us and can they do long-term damage?

Charting cutting-edge scientific breakthroughs, and synthesizing decades of research and clinical practice, Why We Sleep explains how we can harness sleep to improve learning, mood, and energy levels; regulate hormones; prevent cancer, Alzheimer’s, obesity and diabetes; slow the effects of aging; increase longevity; enhance the education and lifespan of our children; and boost the efficiency, success, and productivity of our businesses.

The book concludes with a provocative new vision for sleep in the modern world, one that aims to solve the greatest public-health challenge we now face: the global sleep-loss epidemic. 

Why We Sleep was recently selected for the prestigious Sundance Book Festival. It will be translated into 34 different languages. Why We Sleep can be found at all major books stores in the US (Scribner) and UK (Penguin Random House), and ordered online at AmazonBarnes & Noble, and Waterstones

As an author, Dr. Walker is represented by the talent agency, WME​. 

Should you be interested in contacting Dr. Walker as a writer, please email WME by clicking here.

* Info From Sleep Diplomat 

Dr. Walker

Speaker

Dedicated to the communication of science, Dr. Walker is an internationally recognized speaker, media discussant. His TED talk one of the fastest to reach 1M views. He is a frequent feature on mainstream television and radio outlets, including CBS, and the BBC.

 

Dr. Walker has been interviewed across a collection of radio and podcast programs, including the Joe Rogan podcast, the BBC and NRP’s Fresh Air with Terry Gross, City Arts & Lectures, Hidden Brain, Science Friday and NPR Forum.

 
 
With the goal of promoting sleep's critical importance, he speaks at events and forums available to the general public, and offers workshops to business leaders, technology firms, and medical and healthcare professionals.
 
 
Dr. Walker was the feature of a CBS 60 Minutes special entitled, The Science of Sleep. Dr. Walker has also helped create the recent National Geographic documentary, Sleepless in America, and the PBS NOVA special, Memory Hackers. Most recently, he has contributed to the BBC Horizon documentary, Curing Alzheimer’s.
 
 
Dr. Walker's numerous presentations include several Google Tech talks, the prestigious Royal Institute (Ri) and Royal Society for the Arts (RSA) in London, and The Smithsonian in Washington.
 
Dr. Walker

Entrepreneur

Dr. Walker holds numerous US patents concerning consumer-based sleep recording, sleep tracking and sleep stimulation.

Dr. Walker also owns several patents focused on the commercial use of consumer-based sleep measures as they apply to health, technology, business and enterprise. 

Previously, Dr. Walker has served as scientific counsel for numerous technology companies, including Hello and Fitbit.

Currently, Dr. Walker is a Sleep Scientist at Google. Here, Dr. Walker helps the scientific exploration of sleep in health and disease. 

* Info From Sleep Diplomat 

Episode Transcriptions

Episode Transcriptions Unedited, Auto-Generated.

Audio: 00:00:00 Opening Music

Tyson: 00:00:15 Welcome to the social community and show where it's our goal to help you learn growing, transforming and personal become today. It's book review time and we're doing why we sleep by Matthew Walker. Phd is a fun little book, kind of a part two, maybe a little. We did a sleep episode a while back. You're interested in that. We'll link to that and there's some different information we're gonna talk about today. Then we kind of talked about then there is going to be maybe a little bit of overlap

Ransom: 00:00:40 Just that just was a tad.

Tyson: 00:00:44 How did you like this spell ransom?

Ransom: 00:00:46 I actually did like this book a lot. I mean I'm not saying that I know everything cause we did this leap episode before. I did find it interesting that a lot of things that we talked about in our sleep episode are mentioned in this book, which is kind of ironic because I didn't, we didn't read this book before we did this thing called song. But I definitely am interested in like science. You know, I'm in the health care field nowadays. So I definitely enjoy the science behind it. And in this book, like they do a lot of testing and they have like a lot of test groups do a lot of different things. I not really like that kind of stuff. One of the things about this book I, I to me a con feels like a fearmonger book in some ways. I don't know if you get that vibe

Tyson: 00:01:36 A little. I think he did a really good job of not making it like dark, gloomy fear. Like, you know, he did a job with like, listen, this is what we found in our experiments, what people found in their experiments. This is the reality of it. Like there's no denying this, there's no joking. We spent a lot of years not understanding this and dismissing a lot of things and we were wrong. And now we know and we have better technology and better experimental procedures and stuff. So I think he did a good job of not making it Fearmonger II, but there is an element in there. I agree.

Ransom: 00:02:11 Yeah, it's definitely got some kind of element in there. But I mean, maybe that's necessary in today's world. Cause I mean a lot of the things that it brings up in the book is like Kinda true. Like we, we shine a spotlight on people who sleep like four hours a day and they're, I mean, getting stuff done and get them to house salon know, even in, in my field, right? Like healthcare workers, if you work 12 hour shifts and somebody calls in sick, like it's like, oh yeah, I want the overtime, I want the overtime, you know, like bolivares overtime and you're gonna get,

Tyson: 00:02:46 Yeah, you go from working at 12 to 16. It's like now you're [inaudible], you're gonna if you, presumably you work the next day, like you only have eight hours of off time, that's still doesn't include commuting, getting home, winding down, getting to bed,

Ransom: 00:03:02 You know, and then it's, it's easily like you have a 40 hour work weekend turns into a 52 hour work week and you learn it. So it's just, it's something that's out there and it's something that we just kind of, I guess, especially in America, something that, Ooh. And it's like the normal and I guess after reading this of both like Kinda, it actually does make me think a little bit, try to make me want to reevaluate my life and kind of, I mean like what are the priorities going on in my life? And anyway, I don't know.

Tyson: 00:03:35 No. Yeah. But the more I learn about this, the more I want to like optimize my sleep and like I never, I never took it seriously from an international perspective. Like I always knew like I'm tired, I need to go to bed, you know? But before I, I would, you know, I would fight it or I was of the mindset. I know, I remember in like my twenties stuff like I can sleep later. Like it's not even a big deal. Like sleep is not that big of a deal. You know?

Ransom: 00:04:05 My, it's funny is I remember sleeping like 13 hours a day, you know, you do why that was there. It wasn't used to sleep 13 hours a day. I was like, yeah, like I mean new, my uninterrupted walking like get a sandwich and then they take a piss. After that I just go right back to sleep for another six hours. Like no biggie.

Tyson: 00:04:25 Yeah, I dunno. I have like sleeping anxiety I guess. Like, like if I'm sleeping too much, like I get all sort of twisting. Like even to this day, like if I, if I see you know, past whatever time, like damn it, I'm fucking blown an hour. Like I said for 10 hours, what the hell is going on? Like fuck. Like I don't know how to think of like, I dunno, it's just weird. But I know now usually may not feel that way. Well I still do. It's because I know, but now I know I fucked up something prior to going to sleep. Like either I was too tired and I didn't get myself enough sleep opportunity. Whatever things like I, I worked out and then I tried to go to bed. I ate like, especially now I have the ordering and I get that last question.

Tyson: 00:05:17 I didn't have that. You have sleep, a sleep tracker that I never had. So now that I have is I could really see this data and like I notice I'm more aware of it and I'm more knowledgeable now. So like now I'm like, you know, I if I slept until seven when I normally getting up at six, like I'm like damn. And I'm like, but now I'm setting, you know, kicking myself. I'm like, I fucked up last night. Like before I went to bed, like, what was I doing? Like I said, up til they watching TV or I stayed up too late doing this or whatever. So,

Ransom: 00:05:43 Yeah. All right, man. I don't know. I just sleep an extra hour. Your body's probably needed,

Tyson: 00:05:49 Right? Yeah, yeah. I'm more forgiving of myself now, but I still am like, damn, I'm an hour behind schedule.

Ransom: 00:05:55 But anyway, but yeah. So what's with this Matthew Walker guy? You got a little off?

Tyson: 00:05:59 Yeah, there's little information on peeves. Yeah. Give him a little, I don't know, credibility people, I don't know. He is a professor of neuroscience and psychology at UC Berkeley. These are the director of it's sleep and neuro injury imaging lab. And if I'm refresher, it's done. It's taking a sabbatical right now from UC Berkeley, but he's still the director of the sleep lab there. He's a former professor of psychiatry at Harvard University and he's been on over a hundred been, has been published on over a hundred scientific studies and it appeared on 60 minutes know about BBC news, NPR and tons of podcasts, but things he is sort of, I guess the expert kind of Goto guy in this topic. He does have a sleep lab, I guess they just built a brand new state of the arcs sleep lab and UC Berkeley where he is currently went there.

Tyson: 00:06:49 So he's kind of big time in this, in this space, in this field. And this is kind of in this book. The first book he's written is really a, I'm a nice guy, kind of the hands down authority ish nus in the field. A lot of critical claim, I think. I believe it was in New York Times bestseller and stuff. So this guy knows his stuff. He's in this day in and day out with patients doing studies and different stuff. So the, I'll link to his site and stuff and you get to learn more about him, what he's up to and if you're going to UC Berkeley, maybe take classes because when he's back in the teaching mode,

Ransom: 00:07:24 Yeah. I mean you can definitely tell from the vernacular in his book. Like he's, he's talking about places in the brain that most people never even heard of before. I guess again, I went to school for this stuff, so I'm like, oh yeah, that's right. Try to remember wall taking me back a little bit and then start reading it. Yeah, I guess, I mean that's another reason I like the book. It's kind of cool.

Tyson: 00:07:45 Yeah, definitely have you're Google ready or dictionary ready? Don't hesitate to look up words. Look up. Things get on the Wikipedia is there's some like grasped saying it's, he's a scientist and he's he's a professor. There is a lot of things that he talks about. He does a good job. I say most parts in explaining the different things. So,

Ransom: 00:08:07 And then like he's got like a, I mean you can definitely tell he loves his work and stuff in there is like, I've been asleep lab, like I don't, I don't know what he's talking about on the EEG. I don't, I don't see people standing in state like jazzy cause I was like, I, he loves his work. It's you gotta you gotta you gotta you can definitely tell he appreciates his work. So it's kind of cool.

Tyson: 00:08:31 Definitely. I mean I, I mean right out the gate, I want to read it real quick. The first, the first paragraph he opens his book with, like, it just goes in hard and, and I, and I love it and I think this really gets you hooked. And then it does, it does kind of get a little bit at that fear-mongering a little bit, but I think what's hit your attention and really says like, Oh shit. Like this is, what's the com in this book? I'm gonna read this real quick. I'm sorry, I slipped that reading out loud. I'm working on it. So routinely sleeping less than six or seven hours a night. The mollis use your immune system more than doubling your risk of cancer. Insufficient sleep is a key lifestyle factor. Determining whether or not you would develop Alzheimer's disease, inadequate sleep, even moderate reductions for this one week, shrubs, blood sugar levels so profoundly that you'd be classified as pre-diabetic. Short sleeping increased the likelihood of your coronary arteries becoming blocked and brittle, setting you on a path toward court, a cardiovascular disease, stroke and congestive heart failure. Sleep disruption further contributes to all major psychiatric conditions including depression, anxiety, and suicidality. That's how he starts to the book off that don't get your attention. I don't know what, just turn this off and put on your favorite show. I don't know.

Ransom: 00:09:52 Yeah, I'm not sure he was there, but you know, that stuff is actually true. You know, and you get out there and spent some time. You know, I've spent some time in sleep lab and people come in and try to tell them like, look man. Like people think it's just neat. Like, Oh yeah, I can, I can go one or two nights without sleep. Yeah, that's cute. That's fine. But if you go say 10 years, right, by one day turns into two and then it's like now you're sleeping less, like three days a week. Now you're sleeping less four days a week, five days a week. And then you do that like before you know it a year's over. Yeah. Over and over and over before you know, you've developed this habit and it's been 10 years since you've gotten, you know, restorative sleep and then it builds up and you know, sneak beers where a lot of things go on. We fixed a lot of neurological pathways apparently I've learned from this book. We recover muscle tissues. Like there's a lot of things that happen while they're asleep.

Tyson: 00:10:57 Yeah, that's the thing. That's funny. And then you know, even like, like how you're immune, just your statement alone. It's like the funnest we have of, it's cute a couple nights you don't want to sleep, but just those couple of nights like there is like forever ramifications of that. Like he was talking about in his book and I think we'll get to it later. But you know, once you, once you kind of break some of these things like there's no, it'll never recover. It will never fix itself. It's like crazy to think about like just doing this a couple of times and we've all done it. I think there's, I mean whatever circumstances it was like, yeah, we've all in this, in America, we've all gone six obviously like we've created a nonrecoverable condition like that we'll never get back. It's like unreal to think about.

Ransom: 00:11:38 Yeah. And you know, I guess I don't like the way that, I mean maybe not be the first paragraph in the book, but he talks about it earlier in the book. He's like, okay, so just imagine you are going to have a child doctor tells this child for half of its life is going to be in a coma. Like state. Yeah. Unable to do anything. Unable to say anything, are unable to react to anything. And then like I was like, I never really thought about that. I mean like no one's ever explained it. Like we just think about it as sleeping, right? Like and on. Then he goes further to say like, why would mother nature like put that in there like we do absolutely nothing. Always think we're the most vulnerable while we sleep. Like that doesn't make sense. Like in a evolutionary kind of ways like doesn't make sense of any animals on this earth. Sleep it, we all do

Tyson: 00:12:43 Crazy man. Even even worms and different things and like everything's like, yeah, that's like crazy. And that's like, and you think about that as well, like that is like to this date the most optimal version of sleep. Like who knows what it used to be like, like this is the most optimal thing it's gotten over the centuries. It's like the pinnacle, like you know what I'm saying? Where we're at now, like who knows what used to be like, that's what I think about. Like you know what I mean?

Ransom: 00:13:10 Yeah, maybe, but I mean he does actually talk about like, I forget where they were in the world, but that tribe, like they just, they go to sleep when the sun goes down and they don't use sheets, they don't use anything. They just sleep. And then like, they just let the natural flow of, you know, the temperature throughout the night regulate their bodies. They, you know what I mean? Like they let, when the sun goes down, they use that to help with their rhythm. All that kind of stuff. Like, I don't know, I tend to think that people in those areas, we'll get some pretty good sleep amount on them.

Tyson: 00:13:43 Yeah. No light pollution, no nonsense.

Ransom: 00:13:45 Yeah. And that's again, themes that he brings to our attention as book is like, yeah, we have these wonderful inventions, you know TVs and all that. And she reaching for it. These peaceful over here. Like they have a lot of light and we have street lights. Like, I mean, I think we've said it before, but you know, for billions of people and some of those down on it, they live in the dark.

Tyson: 00:14:17 That's it. Yeah. I think it was, I think it's something like it's over a billion people that don't have light at night.

Ransom: 00:14:23 Yeah. And it's like we are fortunate that we, our life can continue. Like we don't have to stop everything or we don't have to prepare everything before the sun goes down, which is great for humanity. You know, some of the consequences, which, you know, Dr. Walker talks about in his book you know, our sleep goes self-performing. So, ah, interesting.

Tyson: 00:14:46 Yeah. And this is a little funny thing that I liked too about he, so I don't know, I want to say witty, but this somebody hobby teasers, these little things and he makes you think about things the same way. This is one of my, one of my kind of little favorite parts in the book is kind of middle-ish of the book says, scientists have discovered a revolutionary new treatment that makes you live longer and it Hanses your memory. And makes you more creative. It makes you more look more attractive, keeps you slim and lowers food cravings. It protects you from cancer and dementia. It works off colds in the flu. It lowers your risk of heart attack, stroke, not to mention diabetes. You'll even feel happier, less depressed and less anxious. Are you excited? Are you interested? And he goes to talk about like if this is a pill, the company would be astronomically rich.

Tyson: 00:15:33 Everybody be clamoring for this IPO and it's fun. It's like, and you know what it is. It's just sleep. All of that in a nutshell. It just getting a good nights. Something we all have access to 100% free, no if, ands or buts. Wealth doesn't matter like nothing yet. We all can do it. It's like so crazy to think about it. Like that's the thing that's fun about this booklet. There's little like that little nuts, not, you know, not sure bomb kind of thing. He like teases a little and gives you this kind of sarcastic kind of thing and it's like no conceit. That's it. The end, like he can just close the book. They're like, just go to sleep. Nothing more to say. Like all of those things you worry about. I've got the solution, go to sleep.

Ransom: 00:16:23 Yeah. But I'm going to, I again, part of the reason I liked the focus, cause you know, he talks about the physiology behind it and he talks about what he's done and like they've done like a lot of experiments. It's kind of crazy.

Tyson: 00:16:34 Yeah. Yeah. He's got all kinds of stuff and then not, it's not just him. I mean he, he talks about all kinds of people studies for all, you know, arrows of time and through, through and through and all this different stuff. And there's a lot of people in this space. It's kind of the loudest, I guess you could say. But

Ransom: 00:16:52 Yeah, I mean I can definitely see why, you know, a lot of people would gravitate or promote some of the things that he's done. But I mean the other interesting way he puts it too is like when was the last time that you woke up and were eating the alert and completely refresh from your night before and you didn't need out eliminating the alcohol, you didn't need caching to, to wake up and you didn't need our uncomfortable wake up. You will but not totally refreshed, didn't need coffee. Right. If you are not doing that, if you can't do that, then possibly maybe something might be effective.

Tyson: 00:17:35 Yeah. I can almost guarantee like that's what's happening. Like, you know, there's no if ands or buts. I, you know, like the more I become aware of this stuff, that's the thing, when you come home and wearing this stuff, you start to placebo or not, I don't know. But you'd have to see these little trends. Like I know personally with my schedule Tuesdays are like the hardest for me. Like the, the workout class I go to, it's an eight 30. That's it. There's no other, no other way I can get to that. So I come off, you know, Sunday, every, you know, everything's great through the week, you know, and in Monday, you know, I go to that class, like it's over at minimum nine 30 sometimes we go to the 10 and then, you know, by 10 o'clock, I mean, she's sleeping already.

Tyson: 00:18:19 So then I, then I need to, I've got half an hour drive home and then I normally sit down and have a big meal and then I don't get to bed til 11, 1130 and then I gotta I gotta be up at 6:00 AM, you know, I got it. I got, you know, kids gotta go to school, get things, got to get done. So I'm already, you know, I don't even have, but maybe a six hour sleep window. Not to mention just working out that and it's very intense physically active things I'm doing. So. And we talked about in the book too, you know, working out too close to bedtime and then not, not, not stacking on top of that. So now I'm going to see late. I just finished a hard workout and I just had a big meal. Like I just stacked the deck entirely against myself.

Tyson: 00:18:58 And then I always Kinda knew I was tired and, but now that I have like this ordering stuff, I could see this empirical data is as good as it's going to be. You know, it's not perfect, you know, especially something like a seatbelt or something. But I can see it like now I feel bad. I can look at this data and say, holy crap, I am just trashed. Like physically my body. Like, you know, mom's just my heart rate and my breathing and all this different types of stuff and it, and then I was looking at this data, you know over the few weeks and I look, so I don't get back to my normal baseline. Like, which was my Sunday, you know, in this chart. So thirsty sometimes Friday, that's where one night of fucked up sleep every night from Tuesday, Wednesday. So even sometimes Tuesday night, I'm going to sleep a little earlier because I'm just exhausted.

Ransom: 00:19:47 Yeah. And that's, that's, that's a beauty of today's world too. Like we got all this technology, we got sleep trackers, like Fitbit, it's, you know, like John Bone off or whatever the heck the damn mean. There's tons of things. There's tons of rings and watches and bands and stuff that can like trap your sleep and like help you with that.

Tyson: 00:20:04 I think that they have some stuff built in the beds now. I want to say you can also buy something that attaches to your bed if, and I'm mistaken, if there is some things I will link to a different things for you guys to look at and interested in. But you know, one of the thing I was thinking about with that is like, you know, some people that's their normal then I had, it's just their normal,

Ransom: 00:20:24 They just, you know, it's like Monday, Monday night is baseball, Tuesday night soccer. Like you know what I'm saying? Like I'm like, right, like you know what I mean? And like Wednesday is like gymnastics and like your life just like repeats this cycle and then like months later, but like, I dunno, I mean I'm not saying that we shouldn't get out there and live life to the fullness. You got one to get out there and do it. But again, moving after reading this book, like I kind of put like a little bit more thought into. Like I'll say, well how's my day going? How's my week going to get more snakes? Yeah,

Tyson: 00:21:00 Well that's the thing. Like you don't need to sacrifice sleep to live your fullest life. And in fact maybe, maybe I disagree. I know like he talks about in this book too, and we can go through some of that. You actually are performing better when you're sleeping, you're mentally sharper, you're, you're making better decisions, you're making better choices, you're tackling the hard stuff, you're getting through these things. And I, I noticed that like, like I got like, you know, with my, with my, with my end of one example, Tuesdays I avoid hardship. I've been noticing that. I'm like, I just don't want to do anything. And so I've been trying to, you know, hack my schedule it and say, you know what, I now aware of this. I understand my avoidance. Like what can I put on my schedule Tuesday that just, I don't need to be at 100% at tackle,

Ransom: 00:21:53 But, but you see what I'm saying? Like, you know, you're, you're, you're making that argument that you're going to try to schedule usually things on Tuesday, but like reality or life is like, why don't you just find a different class bro? And like,

Tyson: 00:22:04 Well there is nothing there. Right? So there's nothing else to do. And I love that class. It's a, it's, it's one of my favorite things I do,

Ransom: 00:22:11 But this is just every American, there's probably everybody watching this right now is like, yes, I love that eight 30 thing that I do and no other time to do it. Yeah. And I just have to sacrifice sleep on. Fortunately that light, then you got people, especially in the healthcare industry, like they worked at night. Most people like that's not for them. And then even the book goes to say like there's two kinds of people, right? You have the LARCs and then you've got the hours. And like if you, you're a large, like the night shift just isn't for you yet. When you start out in health care and like you gotta do nights, you do nights and year for awhile and then eventually you moved to days. And some people when they go to days, they still have to switch, right? One month they're on night shifts and then the next month we get to go to days. Like, you know, it's, but again this is America and this is what we've become. This is available. That's part of the reason he wrote this book too is to get people to change that. Like look, America, we're doing something wrong for breast of the world. Right. And he's like, look at companies like Nike and Google. Like they got sleep pods at work, like

Tyson: 00:23:27 Urge you to go home and go to sleep. And then they also a lot, it's going to allow you,

Ransom: 00:23:32 I mean, whatever time works for your body schedule. Yeah. And then they also avoid all of the craft that you do at home. Like Google does their laundry and I'm gonna give you food like you don't have, she don't have to do your laundry, you have to iron your clothes.

Tyson: 00:23:45 Like right, I'm going to work, put your clothes on. I'm like, yeah, already covered. Like I need to work there. So the thing to me is like the more I learned about this, the more I can hack my Monday night to be the best possible version of having a good Tuesday. Like you know, so now I'm thinking about as I'm looking at this data and I'm tracking this stuff, I'm like, I'm going to stop eating dinner when I come home. I don't need to eat. I go to bed and I hear, I just freed up probably another hour or more of sleep. That's like, these are different things. Like I not gonna sacrifice this class. What? Looking at the data, looking at this stuff, learning about this stuff. Like where are the areas I can maximize and still go to this thing and do this thing. I'm not going to die.

Tyson: 00:24:29 If I don't need it, I'll be just fine. You know? And there's some maybe some, you know, there's some health things about muscle buildings that people talk about with not eating after workout. Some people are like gotta eat some people, whatever. We're not gonna talk about that today. But in the studies though, they show their lack of sleep though. Like it effects the choices that you make. Right? Right. One of those studies is anxious thing, like they sleep deprived people and then they gave them access to like a buffet with like a dessert buffet and they said, I forget the percentage, but majority of people, most of the people wrong straight for the cookies and ice cream. Like it's crazy. And I know that I was, I was always wondering, am I here? Why am I am like Wednesday am I just, I just want dark chocolate so bad.

Tyson: 00:25:16 I want a big bowl of ice cream. And I never understood why, you know, and my body's low on sleep. It's like, it's by that we need, we need bad choices. Come on, come on in, come on out. I just, yeah, I just, not that I was like, you know, the frontal cortex or whatever it gets shut down when I asleep was like, damn, honestly you're talking about the full hormone to makes you turn that off so you just eat more. Yeah. I was like, and it's like what a bad thing. Like you're hungry and then not only hungry where you're just making horrible choices and that's kind of crazy. Yeah. This is the things that like it's fun about this book. It's fun about this topic and it's like all this shit we were told and Shit happens with new information. We've got to be able to make new decisions, new habits, take this new information and say all the shit we thought we knew.

Tyson: 00:26:09 And that's a problem that, you know, the science or whatever it was, the forties fifties whatever it was like asleep. It's nothing. It's for nothing. Your brain is like dead. So there's no point in it. And that was what their conclusions were. And that a lot of that we ran with, and we still think about that to this day. But now with the better technology and information and stuff to talk about in this book, we can start to say, listen, like I know something's wrong with me and a lot of my problems sleeps. Let's try the sleep thing. Like, you know, I started making, and that's the thing like I think he talks about this book or maybe it was on a pockets or whatever. It's like we're not sleeping, so when we're at work we're not being productive or not doing stuff. So we got to stay later at work.

Tyson: 00:26:48 So then we come home and we get, we don't get to sleep on time and then it's like this vicious cycle, you know? So it's funny, like when you know, you start by sleeping better and then you don't have to be at work a song and it, guess what, you get to do more things and go to sleep and be better at work. Like, you know, you gotta think like you've only got to be up a percentage or two better than your colleagues to just excel. Yeah. The eight hours you're at the office for less than everybody else, but you're hammering out more work, more quality shit. You're tackling the hard problems

Ransom: 00:27:21 Up for commotion. Yeah. But you know, again, like the even shores like studies in this, like when you get rem sleep, like your deep rem sleep, like it's on dreaming sleep. Correct. Yeah. The one that that's dreaming Ram Sire. For those of you that don't know, I just assumed everybody watched our previous episodes, but rem stands for rapid eye movement. So in the book they'll go over all of it, but you'd have two stages. Well not two stages, but basically there's a rem, it's like you'll have non rem sleep, which is, you know, where eyes are not moving and then you know you'll have your rem sleep where eyes are moving. But those patients that actually, you know, did the task and then they got a lot of rem sleep. Like that's where their, their creativeness turned on.

Tyson: 00:28:08 As I mentioned with memories, learning, all that stuff was all increased.

Ransom: 00:28:13 Oh, well, I mean, well some people have like short rem latency, they just go straight into rem. Yeah. Especially if they're deprive, right. Or call rebound is what we call it. You know, they'll go straight into rem. However, you know, in the non-rem stages, like there are one, two, and three. In the past there used to be four, but now all three and four are kind of been bundled together. But in your deep non-rem sleep, this kind of where the memory conversion process needs in the book, like I said, you can tell this guy is like a total geek, which is freaking awesome. But it's like you can see the brainwaves go from like something and then they, you know, they actually do get cause in the deep rem, I mean deep non-rem sleep, you will see the wave length school, like the entire chart will go all the way up and then they'll come all the way down.

Ransom: 00:29:02 We'll all the way out and come all the way down. Which is, which is Kinda cool. And they say that that is where your, you know, number one, repairing brain cells and number two, that's where you're taking the memories that you have in your short term area, right. From your heart, from your Ram, right. And then you're putting it into your own for your rom right. And putting into rep to just both from short term to long term. And then when you hit the ram, that's when you start handling stuff like emotions. That's when you start turning on the creative parts of your thinking process and those kinds of things. So yeah, I, I geeked out on that part of the book as like, Damn, this is good, bro. When you hear this thing, I need to hear this stuff. But yeah. You know, but yeah, it does definitely serve a function.

Ransom: 00:29:48 I like even the part where he's talking about sea mammals and stuff like, yeah. Like they sleep like half brain at a time. It was like, wait, whoa, that's crazy shit that, that have their brain, I dunno man. This book is, it's definitely got some good stuff in there. And I know that they were talking about I don't know if I want to say PTSD treatment, but something along those lines with hacking the rem sleep and getting more rem sleep. Right. So part of the studies that they're doing, and what they found out is that, you know, when you get to that dreaming state the dreaming state has something to do with it. They, they did studies where they couldn't tell exactly what you're dreaming about per se, but they could tell like you would, they would, they would just watch people and you know, on the monitors and then they, you know, have everything hooked up and they have them on MRI.

Ransom: 00:30:40 So when they're in rem Sneed, in certain parts of their brain are firing or the MRI, they would wake them up in the k, what were you dreaming about? So like, they did like study after study and they tested all these people. And like, eventually they got to the point where they're like, this guy's dreaming about a car. I was like, wow, that's crazy. Right? They put in there, I mean, they couldn't tell you what kind of car was, but they like they could they say, oh, that's the brain pattern of somebody's dream, move on a car or a dog or whatever. I was like, none. It's crazy. But anyways, I digress. I'm getting off here, you know. But you know, as far as the rem process goes in the, you actually get into your dreaming state. You know, dreaming is supposed to help with, you know, your emotional being.

Ransom: 00:31:27 So when you dream, you kind of really relive either this traumatic experience that you've had or this joyful experience that you've had. And then like for the ones that are traumatic, you, when you're in the rem sleep, sorry, I have to go back and geek out some more. You're, your fight or flight syndrome is turned on. We call this the sympathetic nervous system. So because you're fighter flights nervous system is shut down. You can actually dream this traumatic thing and your body's not going to have this natural reaction to fight it. And they were saying what was kind of missing with people that have PTSD can't talk right now, but I'm pushing more so is that for some reason there, you know, whether it just be there in the combat zone or whether it just be the stress of life, like they're not able to shut down their sympathetic system.

Ransom: 00:32:26 They're still in fight or flight mode even when they're in rent, which is kind of crazy. Yeah. Which is, you know, so your brain is trying to relive this nightmare when you know your senses are of toned down, but because your senses are not toned down, you just basically relive the same dream over and over again and it's just as living nightmare. People don't want to go to sleep. So I don't know what kind of drug he was, but he was kinda talking about like how they've magically met up somehow and just Kinda, things clicked along and like they, they did it, but there's a drug that's supposed to suppress your, your your fight or flight syndrome while you're sleeping. And then that way when you dream, like you will eventually get through that traumatic experience. So again, I don't, this is from this book I like, I am a healthcare personal, so no, but I, you know, I, they did all the work. They did all of this stuff I can count per se, but I thought that was really interesting.

Tyson: 00:33:24 Yeah, it was cool how you're talking about how they kind of discovered that the people with PTSD if I remember correctly was they couldn't attach the, detach the emotion from the dream. So that's why they kept having that feeling or whatever, a hairball and think about it. I never thought about that.

Ransom: 00:33:43 [Inaudible] Is still there. I mean you've been in the militaries like yeah, I'll talk to a lot of guys who've been in the military and like, I mean, like you don't really sleep and you're out there. I mean, I don't know. I would pass on this name and most people like, you know, the air, the air between, frankly, if they were going to wait, like they, they're not, not me. But

Tyson: 00:34:06 Yeah, tell my buddy like, listen, when I, when it's ready for my turn, you've got to wake me up. Like I'm going to be hard to wake up, but give me a chance. Yeah. But a grenade goes on, you're fine. Wake up. Like, let's be real. Like, you know, hey, you would think so. You would think so my friend, I've been known to sleep through a few do intense situations now that I've never been in combat. I think that, but training, training things. So yeah,

Ransom: 00:34:36 Again, it's like this is, you know, just interesting things about this book that I didn't know before I read it. It's just kind of cool. It's pretty cute.

Tyson: 00:34:46 Yeah, that's really good. If you, if you or anybody, you know, the Guy PTSD something may be interested in looking into like, this is some interesting, interesting stuff. So I would say it seems like a, from what I read and remember a safe treatment for PTSD, something that potentially help and, and a lot of people out there not just combat related PTSD for all kinds of reasons.

Ransom: 00:35:09 Right. And this, you know, just because I talk about PTSD, it's not, it's not about people who are veterans as well. Like it could be people that have traumatic experiences from childhood or whatever the case might be. You know, but getting that deep rem sleep is kind of what helps people get through that heartfelt emotional part because your brain kind of finds a way, right? You either dream in some kind of hidden message or whatever the he to, you know, to relive that in whatever way your body can accept it. And then from there, you know, when you relive it a second or third time or fourth time without the sympathetic nervous system like you, you learn to get old. So I don't know. Yeah,

Tyson: 00:35:55 One of the many reasons, I mean, it's fun to look at this. The more, especially the more I learn about it, the more you can talk to somebody about, like, I was talking to somebody before and they were talking about it. I'm like, listen, Hey, there's some things you should do. And they're like, Huh? Like you're not hearing me. Like I can't sleep. But like, I understand like do you do these things before bed? Oh yes. Probably. Why? You're not sleeping. No, it's fine. You need to go see a doctor. You need to start changing these things. And it's just like this look of like, you're a fucking moron. You're not listening to me, you know? But

Ransom: 00:36:32 Yeah, I, I guess, but you know, it's funny because I had a coworker too, like it seems like after we made this leap episode, you know, she was just talking about it and she was like, you know, I have a hard time sleeping. I was like, you know, it's kind of funny cause you didn't want that so publicly. She's like, shut the front door. I was like, oh. And like, so we watched it and then like, so she's like, okay. She's like, so, so tell me, is that like, she was like, all right, I'm going to listen to you. And then like, it was weird because I was like, yeah, I was like, get rid of all your electronics in your bedroom. No blue light, like before you go to sleep. And then she was like, really? I gotta, I gotta get rid of my TV.

Ransom: 00:37:07 I wasn't, yeah, I was like, you can put it in the living room. She's like, there's me. And then like, she's like, and that know all, it's funny because like I a couple of days and not even like a couple of days later, she has a grandson. You never believe what happened. She's like, I went to church and there was just this person who just got into this unfortunate thing and you know what I mean? They, they are moving into this place and they have nothing. And you know, I just took this as a sign for what you're saying. So I donated my TV to them and so that would have a TV in their home. And then like, sure enough, she was like, you know what? I actually stuff to a better, I was like,

Tyson: 00:37:50 Well,

Ransom: 00:37:52 Wow, it's pretty awesome. But yeah, so, you know, just things like that. And, and again, I know it's hard. We all love what we do. We're all creatures of habit. But you know, you're reading what you've, so, so and I guess getting into the science of things like how sleep works. And this is kinda something I kind of knew about, but I really didn't know. So the two major things, I guess when you're getting ready to go to sleep that affects how you to fall asleep are number one year circadian rhythm once a scientific term. But basically your body has a natural clock of, you know, wanting to fall asleep and wanting to wake up. And then the other thing that affects it is what Dr Walkin calls sneaker pressure, right? Yeah. So sleep pressure is basically, you know, how active you are during the day, how long you've been awake and believe it or not, how much caffeine you've had.

Ransom: 00:38:49 There are other stimulants out there in the world. You know, but basically if you take the activities in your day and you sum them up to me to whatever parts, like all of that will basically free of receptors in your brain. Right. So that, you know, so when your circadian rhythm, right, when your clock hits a certain time, if the pressure to sleep is great enough, then you will fall asleep. Culturally that's not when you're behind the wheel, but [inaudible] part two like little micro sleeps there. It's Kinda interesting, you know. So these are kind of things that, again, when you read this book and you get into the details of things can help you sleep. They talk about also what does that see? I can't, I keep messing around and say, see BTI, is that that behavior for insomnia?

Tyson: 00:39:42 Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Cognitive behavioral therapy for insomnia, CBTI.

Ransom: 00:39:46 Gosh, I, we're understanding how you sleep and you know what the parameters are. Stuff like sleep pressure, stuff like your circadian rhythm how to control that, whether you're a lark or whether you're a night owl, you don't need those, those kinds of things. Like there's a lot of interesting and a lot of moving parts to getting good quality sleep, which is kind of cool.

Tyson: 00:40:08 So, yeah, that stuff is, it's so fascinating when you learn about it and it's like when I first, you know, even like naps, like you gotta be careful with naps and stuff and different things. Cause then you really, this the pressure and yeah, like that stuff is, it's crazy. Anika, I used to be before, I just really like national for weak people. Now I understand them more. So like, you know, I'm more understanding of when I need a nap or others. Like, you know, I have a teenager so it's like before I was a fucking lazy ass mother fuckers fucking on the clock, you'll ask this still in bed, you just lazy as shit and an outlet. Oh Oh I learned that. And adolescents, your circadian rhythm gets pushed back naturally and you want to go to sleep later, which makes you want to wake up later.

Tyson: 00:40:57 And it's like, so when I learned that, I'm like awesome. So much more understanding now. Like I can help, I can help you set, you know, set you up to win. Like let's, this is the stuff you can't, you know, you should be doing. And these are the things I get it like, so when you understand these things, like it's so easy to set yourself up to win, especially with all this stuff like we talked about before with the repercussions of not sleeping well, like helping your teenagers and stuff sleep better if you've got kids at home like the, he talks about in this book a lot too about the schools, you know with with remembering stuff. Yeah. Well your regular job in this case sometimes talking about teenagers cause to me that was like the really profound thing. Like I never thought about, you know, like doing better in school remembering stuff and they one, the one town they change the school start times. I think it was eight 30, there's a 70% reduction in accidents. I was like antilock brakes. It was only like 20 or 25% reduction in accidents. Like that's twice more than twice, three times greater. Like just moving teenage high school start times one hour and like crazy on unbelievable stuff. When you start to learn about that, like we talked about better just places. I think too,

Ransom: 00:42:10 We talked about it too in our last few episodes. [inaudible] Same time. Right. We'll switch it over. C kills a lot of people. Young people have heart attacks, they get car accidents. I know does a bow, but you know that joke, right? Why don't you just go an hour? You're what a thought.

Tyson: 00:42:31 None of them, nor you are. I live in an area where we have the time zone change. I don't understand. And like why you'd know you, I mean, I'm sure you guys have been born going up to that day. Like why don't you just set your clocks back forward, whatever that, whatever you do like when you get home or something. I don't know. I don't get it,

Ransom: 00:42:49 But I, you know, but anyway, getting back to kids at school, like, you know, it also helps with their memory. Yeah. Knocking them out earlier. Right. When you get into them. Deep non-rem sleep that converts your short term memory to long term memory. And they even this study in this book I kind of wish they'd, what it did a study about recall. That's the reason why most students eat all nighters as they're actually is. Because I believe the recall factor is a lot greater. Yeah.

Tyson: 00:43:23 My understanding is as soon as you're done, as soon as you go to sleep, all that goes away. Like your brain just not gonna consolidate.

Ransom: 00:43:30 I understand that. But I'm just saying that's the reason why students do that. And even he talked about it in this book, he's like, you know, I've talked to the school system to see if we could create a better way for learning and a better learning environment. But in there they weren't too happy with that.

Tyson: 00:43:49 Everybody. Yeah, he was talking about everybody's tested like the same week and everybody's got it. Gotta do

Ransom: 00:43:53 It. Yeah. And so I keep those race classes, he doesn't have those finals and he spreads it out and stuff. It's kind of interesting how he, yeah, he understands. Like, you know, the key to true learning, right, is not what you can recall on a test. Like key to true learning is making that transition, right. Converting your short term memory into long term memory and over time just building upon building. And you know, they did studies in this, you know, according to this book and they showed that, you know what, when people get a full night's rest after learning, like especially when they learn, they go right to sleep. Like they retain way more information. So just, just kind of keep that in mind. If you've got teenagers going to school, like their rhythms are off, they need four months of sleep. If they can't get that cause they have to get off at five or six in the morning and make it to school on time. You know, and just, I dunno, I, I definitely think it opens my eyes and definitely explains a lot of stuff. Which is kind of cool.

Tyson: 00:44:53 It doesn't pack and reminds me, it's been to our I had a while ago and every time we'd get off this like crazy hard like session or something like brain melting training or whatever, he'd be like, all right, now, soon as we get off this, everybody go take an hour break, let your mind relax. We'll say bounce, some are quiet. Maybe take a nap. Like you should let this go. And I was like, why? Like I got shit to do. Like now I understand. He's like, you wanted us to absorb that and to let that start to transfer into our longterm memory. And I was like, 10, this guy's smart. And I just bought it the whole way.

Ransom: 00:45:32 Tips and hacks and tricks, man. Like when it gets like this stuff. Yeah. And I guess since we're talking about teenagers and all that kind of stuff, I mean nowadays we have so much damn medications out there. It's like, no, it's like you think your kid may have eight ADHD, but really you might just sleep some sleep. Especially you're not going to sleep, which makes you make bad food choices, which makes your blood sugar levels go up and down. I mean, hey, we can get into that. I mean just, and you're just in this study, it wasn't just about fat food choices. It's like the part that makes the hard court decisions in your brain, right? Your prefrontal cortex. Like if you lack sleep, that things are shuts. Now that's crazy. So I don't, I mean again, I'm not here to tell anyone how to raise a kid or anything like that, but just definitely reading this book might breed some light and might help you with your situation and like going along the whole medication train stuff like ambien and then that's the people that take that sleep or I don't know what age you can fake it, but you know, kids would think, who knows, whatever the case might be.

Ransom: 00:46:39 I, I, I think he did a really good job in this book when he's talking about those pills cause he's like, you know, so you get into a more restful state. He said, but I am purposely avoiding the word sleep. You know, it's like, because you're not actually sleeping, you're just going into, you know, I guess being sedated. Right. And you're right. Exactly. You're in the medical world. We kind of understand what that's about. Like you know, your, your body's, you're passed out, you're not, you're passed out. Right. But you're not sleeping right. You're not getting that deep and rem sleep. Right. If you put the EEG on them, you're not going to see those long waves that he's talking about. You won't see the rapid eye movement with the saw two patterns. Like you're not going to see that on somebody who is sedated. Right? Yeah. Like he talks the same thing about people who drink alcohol before bed as a nightcap. Like you're not really resting better. You actually get less rem sleep and you're not your first non-rem stages. There's not, you're not really sleepy. You're just kind of sedated, like in this lackadaisical state.

Tyson: 00:47:47 [Inaudible] And you've got to get up to piss. So now you're getting up.

Ransom: 00:47:51 Right. But it's not actual sleep. And I'm saying like, and you know, again, talking about the whole dangerous of the things that some people take with nest or I have eaten and when they wake up in the morning, like they're still in that sedative state and like they may, you know, they're operating heavy machinery or motor vehicles during the time. That can be dangerous too. It's crazy.

Tyson: 00:48:14 No, not to mention, I mean, I'm sure a lot of people pair different horror stories about that. He did a podcast I'll link to with Dr Peter [inaudible] is a great podcast and the doctor Peter t, the host of the show, he was saying when he was a young doctor and he would, he would get on a west coast, east coast spice. He would take an ambient to pass out on the plane and thinking he was sleeping. And he said he would. Well, he, he had get up later on or whatever, these eight or, and he would see emails, he sent phone calls he made to colleagues and patients and stuff. And he was like, when did I, when did that happen? He's like, I was sleeping on the plane. I sent emails to people and he said, good thing, nothing was ever inappropriate or whatever had happened. But that's when he stopped taking it. I was like, I am not even aware of what I'm doing and my behavior, it, things happened. He's like, you know, I could be, you know, doing something and I'm not even aware of it. So I have heard different other stories from people too. They, they're not even aware that they had done something cause they were on Ambien

Ransom: 00:49:13 By, I even even on this, like he, he definitely calls it out. It's like those kinds of drugs. I remember your racers like, yeah, that was interesting to learn too neon. So like anything you do when you're on it or and, or before or after, like you don't remember, you know, so, you know, things do have their side effects. And I, I know people who swear by ambient, but

Tyson: 00:49:35 That happens. You're passed out so you think you're sleeping. So

Ransom: 00:49:38 Yeah, you're, you're sedating, right? Yeah. But try not to confuse sedation with actual restaurants because they are same. They look the same, but there are differences. So,

Tyson: 00:49:52 And I think that's where, you know, maybe sleep trackers, it depends. It's like that it can help you, you know, bring light to that data and it shows you your, your, your, your, you know, your non rem sleep, your rem sleep, your deep sleep, your a wakeful periods like these things can show you like, Dang, I'm not even like I was awake five times. I stand. Like when did that happen? Like, you know, like I didn't get any rem sleep last night, I got very low or whatever. And these things show you that stuff. And it's like you guys like to track back like what did I do last night, what I've been doing. Like that's the thing I like about it.

Ransom: 00:50:22 And even then, you know, when you taking this back, all the stimulants that are out there, you know what I mean? [inaudible] Coffee and the caffeine. Yeah. How easy is it to drink a soda before you go to bed?

Tyson: 00:50:35 And that's the thing that was I like to learn cause I'm in the camp of I'll take an espresso right now. Double Shot, shot shadow man, I'll pass out. Right, no problem.

Ransom: 00:50:44 Right, because your brain has so many receptors already to it. Yeah. Right. And that's what you're saying is like built up tolerance to it so that, I mean, yes, that may be true, however that Kathy and had does have a half-life and even though you fall asleep, right, because your pressure is great enough, you're not going to achieve deep non-rem sleep and you're not going to achieve rem sleep for very long because eventually those receptors are just going to kick in.

Tyson: 00:51:12 And that's when I learned that I was like, Oh man, I was in the camp of, I haven't expressed in go to bed, who cares? Like, but never are not on like nope, no caffeine, nothing after two o'clock in the afternoon. Nothing. Don't, I don't, it doesn't even matter. Like, because I understand now the importance of even being even I did my DNA stuff. I'm a fast cabin caffeine metabolizer so even though my halfway maybe you know a little less, it's still, I just don't even play that no more. And I like my stimulants. If you can't tell,

Ransom: 00:51:41 Yes, you are a very stimulating person. I don't know what to say. But yeah. So

Tyson: 00:51:50 Yeah, I don't want to think I'm in. I think this can kind of lead into, into driving. Like I never thought about not only just tired driving, but the cool thing I learned and I like this word he uses in the book and micro sleeping like that, like dozing off kind of thing, but not realizing you're dozing office. That's like, I don't know how many times I've done that and they can never realize how scary that is, you know?

Ransom: 00:52:15 Yeah. And again, I mean, I'm not trying to jump on the fear of Mongo Bagging Bandwagon, but he does definitely present a valid argument. You know, he's not justifying drunk driving, but you know, if you're drunk driving, you have a slow reaction, right. If you are Aka sleeping, you can step on the braking at all. You can honor sphere out of the way, or you can do anything. You know, you're basically driving this vehicle. Who knows? I mean, hopefully it's like under 25, but if you're driving down the freeway at 60,

Tyson: 00:52:54 I'm driving a tractor trailer.

Ransom: 00:52:56 Yeah. and somebody stops in front of you, you're, you're not going to react.

Tyson: 00:53:04 Yeah. That's the thing. If I, if I'm not mistaken, he said,

Ransom: 00:53:08 Yeah.

Tyson: 00:53:09 Oh, so the tire driving causes more or is responsible more fatalities and accidents than drunk driving and all other types of things like that. It was like, I was like, Dang. Like, that's insane. And in the first, when I was I want vacation earlier this summer to Utah, and it's just one really long road. The speed limit was 80 and it's just really this kind of long distance road. I see. I seen signs, I'd never seen science before. Tire driving, like type signs they, you know, kills and pull over. And I was like, wow, that's like they're taking this stuff seriously.

Ransom: 00:53:40 Well, yeah, I mean it's just, it's just the thing you just have no control over you, you know, it's called a micro and I got, and I just, I liked the way he said the micro Steve Too.

Tyson: 00:53:51 Yeah. If it's cool, let a cool term.

Ransom: 00:53:54 Yeah. But I mean when you, when you those off behind the wheel, like you have more control and like at the same time. But I mean he brings a valid point too. It's like some people are both, you know what I mean? Like you normally wake up at six every morning to go to work and then, you know, hey, it's Friday night after work, we all gonna go out. We're going to have something. So you're already staying up later than you normally would be. So your sleep pressure is high and you're intoxicated. Right. So now you, now you're like double dipping. Like you're, when you're awake, your reactions are slow and when you're micro microscope being, your actions are at zero. It's like,

Tyson: 00:54:35 And as a fun thing too, he talks about, he's like all those stupid little tricks you think work don't work to keep you awake, the radio to call it air. You're waiting out the window. And I was like, man, I tried all of them. All of them. What, what does work is when you could just have a little micro CB wake up and your fucking heart starts pounding like crazy cause you almost killed yourself. That works a little bit

Ransom: 00:54:57 I guess. But you know, that's just the thing too. And you know, again, not to do fearmonger thing, but but after reading this book, I can put some thought into it. Like if you are fired when you're driving, like just pull over man. And the book he recommends to take a nap or as long as you need to, not all of sudden for five minutes. Like, yeah, I'm a little sleep. And when you wake up, you wake up, right. And then just remember, you know, that when you wake up, you may be in a lax basical state. You know, when you go from sleep to wakefulness. So even after you wake up, like take about 20 minutes before you started driving again. Yeah. That's what he recommends. The book. And I would have to refer you to I guess where I'm at.

Tyson: 00:55:46 Yeah. I remember doing a funny story, a on the podcast. He did Peter TIAA Peter being a doctor. He said when he was in residency, I forget how, whatever days he was awake, I, I know several days and he hadn't slept there. He had slept very minimally hour or two or something like that. And he said he was driving his car and it was a, a standard stick shifts or whatever to wherever you want to call it. He said he jumped in the car and it was, it was a little bit ways to get onto the, to the highway freeway or whatever it was to get home. He's like, I could not hold down the clutch pedal old tired. I could not keep the clutching. He pulled into like a questionable park, like late on a parkway. He's like, I'll just stay here for a few minutes.

Tyson: 00:56:27 He's, I think he slept for something like eight or 10 hours on that lane in his park. Well that's just, I mean these are the signs. If you start to recognize and know these signs. I mean, I, I, I know I've done it. I've jumped in a car and been like, I'm tired. I'll be alright. I'll make it home. And it's like you got to stop and like take a nap or whatever. It's just like you just can't, like, you start to feel that sensation of like, I can't react. I can't control my bodily functions here. Like I, my muscles feel weird. Like, and I know me when I get overly tired, like my legs, like shaking, kind ache or whatever, it's like, to me, I got that physical sign and I know I'm like, all right, I got it. I got to stop.

Ransom: 00:57:08 Yeah. So making it out there and then I guess a, something else I have here my notes too. Yeah, we're on the topic of microsleep being [inaudible] I guess I never really understood, you know, how much like hours of sleep are required. [inaudible] He put some good statistics in there that I'm just going to read out here. Yeah. So and I guess this one is a little bit more extreme. I don't know very many people, they get less than four hours of sleep a night, but if this is you not talking to you per se, but I'm just reading this out so it may apply to you. May Not, I'm not specifically talking about you, just so you know. Right. But Steve Deprivation is, yeah. You know, if you get less than four hours a night for six nights in a row, that is equivalent to going 48 hours without soon.

Audio: 00:58:11 [Inaudible]

Ransom: 00:58:11 Great. So like this was like in a week's time, you know, you work in those 16 hour shifts, right? You're getting less than four hours or sixties. Right. Getting that over time. Like that's the same thing as staying awake for two days.

Audio: 00:58:29 [Inaudible]

Ransom: 00:58:29 That's crazy.

Tyson: 00:58:31 Yeah. If you've ever done that, imagine what you felt like at the end of that 48 hours. You think you can break your function. Yeah.

Ransom: 00:58:40 [Inaudible] that's what you're doing. And that's an extreme version. But the next one I think most people have done, and I think I do it all the time. If you get less than six hours a night for attendings, that's the same as going without sleep for 24 hours like that. The light, like she hit me and I was like, dude, I've done that. I've done that on more than one occasion.

Tyson: 00:59:05 That's the American average norm right there that the average American sleeps six hours. So that's your normal. So everybody, if you're only spending ten six hours a night, you're basically, you're, you're, you're basically functioning at just after just 10 days. Now you're basically functioning out of sleep. Their variation of 24

Ransom: 00:59:22 Hours. Now imagine you, you do this week after week, month after month. You're just, you're basically a Zombie. But I, I, I just found that like statistic and again these are just studies that he's done right there after the certain parameters to test how awake people are and how responsive they are and you know what everything is. But you know what I mean? Like people that were sleep deprived for, you know, four to six hours for days on end had the same results on these tests as people who hadn't slept in a data to like, I mean was it, was it 24 hours of no sleep was equivalent to being legally drunk? Was, was that it or was it more items? I don't know. And again, there was something along those lines, but again, they're not the same. And for those of you that are younger, we found out in some situations, but you know what I mean, like it's just, it's out there and not trying to compare apples and oranges, but you know, just that, that statistic itself like less than six hours of sleep per 10 days.

Ransom: 01:00:26 Like, I do that regularly, but I mean I try not to, but I've done that on, I think most Americans have done that in no. And it's like I just never realized that that's the same thing as been for an entire day. I mean I definitely feel it, but like I didn't know that it was that bad. So just, just putting it out there. And for those of you people that are like, oh no, I'm the exception to the rule. Like I have that gene, meaning you know AI, what did, what did he, I he, he said it so elegantly, I'm going to try this, I'm probably going to mess it up. But the number of people that can survive with less than five hours of sleep, but is it represented as a percentage of the population and rounded to the nearest number is zero.

Ransom: 01:01:21 It's less than one person, less than 0% national things represent no point, blah, blah, blah, whatever, whatever. So if you think you are that person, you might be, I ain't trying to call you out on stuff, but chances are you're probably not. So if you think you are and you've got to have a cup of coffee or a monster or red bull when you wake up, cause you can't keep your eyes away. If you have an optical clock you are ready to pass the fuck out. You Ain't one of these people. I want to say if I remember correctly, it was like less than 12,000 people in the world have been found to have this genetic variant. I could be mistaken, it's in the book if you're interested in learning more about, and again, interesting thing. So you know, those are some of the factors, right? Like if you wake up with an alarm clock and if you feel totally refreshed and after a few hours of being awake, you don't need to take a nap again or you don't need to drink coffee or any beverages

Tyson: 01:02:20 Like that. Those are all good signs as to you know how well your sleep hygiene is doing. And you know, if that's not the case then these micro sleeps are going [inaudible] that's the only, no it wasn't. Another one of my favorite words, social jet lag. Social Chair flag. I love that. I love that. So what social jet lag is defined by him? I don't know if he made it up or not, but it's when you binge sleep on the weekends, that's considered social jet lag. I was like, that's the best. How many people either have you done it or you know that you know, Saturday they're sleeping in 10, 11, 12, one o'clock, two o'clock. It's like catching up, which you can't do on all your sleep you didn't get, cause your sleep pressure is so damn high. I just love that. Like what a great thing to like as social jetlag.

Tyson: 01:03:11 You're up, you're up too late, you're not, and then that in itself is a problem. So now it come Sunday. You know, you should be going to bed at whatever, let's call it 10 o'clock and say, well you didn't wake up till two o'clock in the afternoon Saturday, which means you probably didn't go to sleep til three o'clock in the morning Sun Sunday, Saturday night. Now that's like 10 o'clock. You're like, well I'm fucking right. I fucking wake and we go again, like, you know, come into Friday with your social jet lag again. So something to keep in mind. You know, they're very inviting. I love that term. It's one of those fun little terms I like. Yeah. I guess I wasn't too hype about that, but yes, the myth is, and you can try to catch up with sleep and you know, the truth of the matter is that you can't, but you can get back on track.

Tyson: 01:03:55 Yeah. You got to sleep it off, sleep it off. That will have impact on your sleep. And sometimes if you do it often enough, it'll push your circadian rhythm either forward or backwards. Yeah. But you know what I mean? You can, you can get back on track. Yeah. And then speaking of that, you know, from the only way I know about is with the help of a doctor, you can move your circadian rhythm, whether it be forward or backwards. I know it takes a long time and take several months if not longer. And there's a lot of different things you've got to do, but it is positive. You conditioned yourself and you want to move it, you know, the help of your doctor, a doctor that specializes in that. I know. It's, it can be done. Yes. CBTS, cbts. Yeah. You know that those are some, I don't know.

Tyson: 01:04:44 I just love this. It's so fun to learn about this stuff. Like personally, I like learning about this stuff. I like to get it perform at my best at all times and you know why and what I can do. What I can control is the one thing that's so easy to do and just has such tremendous benefits undeniable to show. And for those of you people that are, you know, another fun fact just moving along. For those of you that are interested in losing weight or mu who are interested in losing weight, might want to try to regulate sleep. Yeah.

Ransom: 01:05:19 Something that's not easily done but don't remember. If you don't get enough sleep, you make bad choices. Right? Prefrontal cortex shut down and make some choices. And

Tyson: 01:05:32 Since your breakfast and, and triple chocolate eclairs for no lunch in AA ice cream schools for dessert at night. I guess stuff

Ransom: 01:05:41 Is bad, but also regulating your sleep will also regulate your glucose and insulin numbers. Yeah. So I guess I am geeked out on this part of the book too. So you know, human body uses glucose, right? As a form of energy, right? We need insulin and going throughout the body to take that glucose into the cells, you know? And for those like this and saying, you know, if you don't eat, you know, an hour or two before bed and you get with four hour sleep, I mean you're at, you're at that time, your body is sure not have very much glucose in it. I mean, if we did things properly, so you know, in the morning your body will actually start producing another thing called Glucagon, which actually starts breaking down your fasteners. So you know, all of these things kind of like play a role physiologically into helping you do things or be get better sleep. You're gonna Regulate Your Glucose, your insulin better or glucagon production that or fat breakdown. And you're going to be making better choices about the foods that you cause, you know, ice cream machine. This is not going to be calling you anything. I mean, I, your mission is always calms me. Feel the resistance.

Tyson: 01:06:56 It's easy to say no to the ice cream man. Yes. I love ice cream. And then that's the one thing I have. And if one experiment be able to notice the most like good, I don't want that. It's like, it's like, it's fun. It's fun to just have that power over yourself and, and not have that feeling of like, I just don't know why I can't resist. Like, you know, now we all know why we, we, no, no, no, that's fine. Any other, any other things you like from this book that we haven't touched on? I know we touched on a lot of stuff. Yeah. Yeah.

Ransom: 01:07:30 I mean there's just so much in this. I guess the other, maybe we can end on this note even though it's not the greatest, but he talks about mental illness in the sport. Yeah. You know, he gets into it with Alzheimer's and dementia and like the different, I guess I didn't know there were so many different types of dementia. I mean I know basically we talk about either delirium and dementia, but nonetheless he's saying that, you know, they used to think that it was kinda like a one way thing. Like if you, if you have Alzheimer's, like you don't get sleep right? Like it's just kinda how it works. Or if you don't get sleep, like you develop Alzheimer's and throughout this

Tyson: 01:08:16 Study they've shown that the correlation between mental illness and sleep is like a two way street. If you have a mental illness, you will get less sleep. And also if you get less sleep, chances are the advantage of being a mental illness are greater. So it's like that Boston I eat because I'm depressed. For me she's cool and Ellie, he's probably not sleeping well. Why are they likely, cause that would make him not so depressed and not so hungry, which would make him not depressed and you wouldn't want to eat the baby. Exactly. There's something to, this is something to it. Austin policy. That's the funny part, right, is so much mojo because he slept for years. Yeah. It's like the vicious cycle, right? Like with me not say in this joke, but with the mental illness that was so fascinating and say if you're susceptible to these types of things, you don't see it because you're not sleeping well exacerbates your mental illness. It's like you're just stuck in that loop. It's like, yeah, it's so crazy. Like how, how much we still just don't know. But how much we do know that these crazy things that seem unrelated, that are just being affected by all of this stuff

Speaker 4: 01:09:37 Or shower, shower.

Tyson: 01:09:40 So it's a great book. I recommend it. If you don't believe, get the book you believe, get the book, learn more, find the little hacks and tweaks you can get into there. It's a great book. It's, I'd say it's a, it's a, it's an easy it's an easy read. It doesn't get, in my opinion too, too, too dry or too boring or it's always, always got a nice fun tone to it. You know, even though there's some scary things he talks about you know, I think it's a good fun read. If there's an audio book he's got like that, the guy, the narrator isn't the author. He's got the like that British accent, which is always fun for us Americans I guess.

Speaker 4: 01:10:21 True.

Tyson: 01:10:23 But yeah, and you know, for some reason you get bored, you are eating or listening to the book and you tend to doze off. Hey, it's okay. You're probably need a map book. Probably need that nap. So yes, I had to find myself like getting tired or, or placebo tire. I don't know, just like the suggestion of sleeping, especially at my, my, my night nighttime drive home and say no and I am tired. Thank you. I appreciate it. But if you're looking for other things to maybe supplement this or go along this, check out this month's giveaway.

Speaker 4: 01:11:01 Okay,

Tyson: 01:11:01 Maybe we'll do a sleep stuff. I don't know. You'll have to see what we got going on. We all kind of fun stuff. We do books all the time. We do courses and products and whatever. We get our hands on that we've, we've tested and validated and we know help to help you check out. We've got going on the social chameleon.show/pick me, see what got going on. Get it. This one's giveaway. It's going to be, it's going to be fun like always. And we'll link to this book as you know, in the show notes as well as other projects talked about. The whoring, which is the best sleep tracker on the market right now. And also does fitness stuff and stuff. If you're interested, I'll link to that. I'll link to Dr Walker's website and his institute and everything that some products that I know of I don't have problems sleeping, but some people in my family and other, other friends and stuff I have, I have recommended and had got feedback on the four sigmatic.

Tyson: 01:11:57 They they do it. Mushroom products, the mushroom teas, the sleep tea from the people I've given it to and has from their feedback. Told me that, I mean just basically they just want to pass out. So it's a product that I, I've tested with people that I know have had problems and they've had good results. They make a lot of great products. If something you're struggling with, give that a shot, I'll link that in the show notes as well as calm the brand. They do a magnesium supplement, it works wonders for sleeping. A lot of great results from that as well as people. I've also had to do that. I said I don't have problems sleeping so I have never tested these things on myself. And then I will link to the drive podcast with Dr Peter Tia where he talks with Dr. Walker.

Tyson: 01:12:43 It's a three part series and they go into a lot of what's in the book. Maybe if you mention the book, this is a more conversational thing with two doctors talking. Dr PTT. Like I talked about a lot in this thing. He, he's a medical doctor so he's gone through these sleep deprived things in medical school and residency. He's got a lot of sleep experience. He does travel a lot. West coast, east coast, back and forth. So he's got a lot of hacks and stuff for sleep cause he does understand the importance of that. I'll link to that if you're interested. Ransom. Anything else I didn't talk about [inaudible] that's a pretty good thing. Yeah. And then rolling on to this week's challenge. If you haven't figured out yet, if you don't, not by this episode takes deep seriously. Work on your sleep habits. Here's some action items for you. People wake up the same time every day. This includes weekend, no social jet lag for you.

Tyson: 01:13:37 Your bed is for sleeping. And one other thing that we're not going to talk about in this episode. I'm watching TV or checking your messages or whatever other things you're doing on your phone or tablet or laptop, whatever they're sleeping. Set up your sleep environment with a cool room. There is a suggested temperature range. If you can, if you're up, you know the economic status to be able to do that. Do your best. Setting that up. This doesn't have to be an expensive elaborate thing. Get a good bed, whatever you can afford. The best you can do sheets, blackout curtains or blinds, those are typically inexpensive. Set that up. Turn off your electronic devices at least one hour before bed. If for some crazy reason you use your phone as an alarm like I do, I put my phone in airplane mode, my phone's off, and that's that. Give yourself at least an eight hour sleep opportunity. There's, it's, it's likely you're not going to actually sleep those full eight hours. So give yourself the opportunity to be in bed for at least those eight hours and get as much of them as you can. If you need to. Bump it out more. Figure out what's what, what works for your current state and getting your [inaudible] optimal. You're gonna have a better life and everything. This is this week's challenge. Go do these things and get them going.

Ransom: 01:14:52 Right? I'm just adding onto that challenge. Some of the action items. Also watch your caffeine and alcohol intake. Watch eating before bed. Try not to eat too early before bed and try not to consume too much caffeine, especially before you go to sleep. Maybe stop that halfway through the day. And if you're taking those alcohol nightcaps to all asleep, maybe we shouldn't do net. No. And with our final thoughts in this book has brought to light a lot of things about sleep. What it does for us, right nature. Put that in there for a reason. There's a reason we are in a coma like state for half of our lives. Think we should take some time to pay attention to that and not treat it as a weakness, but probably much more as a strength. It was given to us for a reason. Sleep, the mysteries of sleep and why we do it. Still have yet to be unraveled. We understand so much about it already, but there are things that we still don't understand about it. And I think it's one of the greatest skews mankind. So as a gift that is rightfully yours, go out there, get it, take it asking it may than it is your gift in China.

Tyson: 01:16:17 If you're looking to enjoy this, this type of information with some other people and sort of who you know, don't sleep well or don't take sleep seriously, share this with them and have a conversation about it. You guys can compare Comos together. See who's got the best coma schedule and, and rituals. Have Fun with this. Share it, teach it. These are the best ways to learn this stuff. And, and you know, sleeping is gonna help your memories be term longterm things. You're gonna make better habits, make good choices. Get people along with you if you need help with that. The best way to support the show is even a liking and review. Sharing us other people. Don't hesitate to let us know what you think. You have ideas, suggestions, let us know. We're always looking for things to help you guys. You know, with what you got going on in your challenges. You can connect with us all week long in between episodes at the social media show on Facebook, Instagram, and Twitter. Don't forget to stress, subscribe on Youtube. You like the video version or, or your favorite podcast app or past episodes and links to everything we've talked about here today. You can miss the social chameleon that show until next time, keep learning. Keep growing some amazing. So transform to that person. You want to [inaudible]

Audio: 01:18:02 [Inaudible].

 

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